Roleplaying

[ksevcov]

Ok, this seems way too complex for me. Since you already have 6 players, I would like to sit this one out.

[icycalm]

Sure. It would have been hard to arrange to play with both you and recoil in the team anyway, since he prefers to start at 7PM UTC and you prefer to end around that time. Sergey also likes to end relatively early for us (at around 10 or 11PM UTC, if I am not mistaken?), but if recoil can start a little earlier, at say 5 or 6PM, and Sergey can play until 10 or 11, we can have a solid 5- or 6-hour play session once a week or every other week.

So now we have 6 players. We can afford to lose 2 more and still play, so if at any time anyone finds that RPGs are not for him, they can just bow out. If we need an extra player I would guess that we could get one by asking for more volunteers (and indeed, you can post in this thread now if you want, to reserve a place in case we develop a line; CTF gets first dibs if he wants them, because of his volunteering for the D:OS team). As I was saying to Qpo on Steam chat last night, real RPGs don't work the same as CRPGs, where you want the same players to go through the entire game (and indeed, the entire series, if they are connected like Baldur's Gate) from start to finish, and where if one player dumps you at some point, you are pretty much screwed and might have to start over. Here the opposite is true. It's actually better if people come and go.

[‎2‎:‎36‎:‎27‎ ‎AM] icycalm: look, the good thing about pen and paper is people can leave, and it's no problem
[‎2‎:‎36‎:‎40‎ ‎AM] icycalm: it's not like computer games, where you need the same person to stay the entire game
[‎2‎:‎36‎:‎54‎ ‎AM] icycalm: so if one player drops out, we kill his character
[‎2‎:‎37‎:‎04‎ ‎AM] Qpo: I see
[‎2‎:‎37‎:‎06‎ ‎AM] icycalm: or he has a disagreement with your characters and leaves
[‎2‎:‎37‎:‎20‎ ‎AM] icycalm: or he simply goes to visit his grandmother, and maybe you will meet him later
[‎2‎:‎37‎:‎24‎ ‎AM] icycalm: or not
[‎2‎:‎37‎:‎34‎ ‎AM] icycalm: and if you do, you have to tell him about your adventures in the intervening time
[‎2‎:‎37‎:‎35‎ ‎AM] icycalm: etc.
[‎2‎:‎37‎:‎42‎ ‎AM] icycalm: and new people can come in at any time
[‎2‎:‎37‎:‎55‎ ‎AM] icycalm: so there's that positive
[‎2‎:‎38‎:‎18‎ ‎AM] Qpo: that's very helpful
[‎2‎:‎38‎:‎32‎ ‎AM] icycalm: I am sure there are already several people on Insomnia reading the threads that would love to play with us
[‎2‎:‎38‎:‎39‎ ‎AM] icycalm: so we will never run out of players
[‎2‎:‎38‎:‎47‎ ‎AM] icycalm: we can play with a minimum of 4
[‎2‎:‎39‎:‎09‎ ‎AM] icycalm: we just need to set up a base group to start with

Why is it better if people come and go?

Because think of the Avengers or X-Men comics. How boring would it be if the group remained the same for 400 issues, without a single character ever missing from a single issue? It's more realistic if the party composition changes as the weeks and months roll on (and indeed, as characters even occasionally die). In videogames you can't do that because the programmers have only programmed one adventure. If a player misses it, that's it. The campaign ends with one adventure. If he doesn't play that adventure there's no point to make a character in the first place. In real RPGs, on the other hand, a campaign contains as many adventures as your characters (or at least ONE of them) can live through, so many more narrative possibilities are available.

Also, if one player is missing from a CRPG team, no one can play. In real RPGs, on the other hand, you can usually play as long as you have enough players to handle the minimum requirements of the adventure.

[‎2‎:‎51‎:‎49‎ ‎AM] Qpo: if one guy is absent from a session, what does one do with his character?
[‎2‎:‎51‎:‎58‎ ‎AM] icycalm: it depends on where you are
[‎2‎:‎52‎:‎13‎ ‎AM] icycalm: if you are not in some kind of restricted environment like a dungeon, you can do anything
[‎2‎:‎52‎:‎18‎ ‎AM] icycalm: he is sick in his hotel room
[‎2‎:‎52‎:‎31‎ ‎AM] icycalm: he has to go off and buy something in another town
[‎2‎:‎52‎:‎42‎ ‎AM] icycalm: I could even meet up with him midweek and play the intervening time
[‎2‎:‎52‎:‎53‎ ‎AM] Qpo: haha, awesome
[‎2‎:‎52‎:‎56‎ ‎AM] icycalm: or I could simply tell him what happened to his character
[‎2‎:‎53‎:‎09‎ ‎AM] icycalm: the possibilities are endless
[‎2‎:‎53‎:‎37‎ ‎AM] icycalm: in a dungeon things get harder
[‎2‎:‎53‎:‎48‎ ‎AM] icycalm: but if you know the exit, he could simply go out to bring supplies
[‎2‎:‎54‎:‎02‎ ‎AM] icycalm: which would reduce your party and make things harder for you
[‎2‎:‎54‎:‎13‎ ‎AM] icycalm: but on the other hand, he would eventually return with the supplies...

Any questions, on this or anything else, use this thread to ask. We will make this the general chat thread, and then I will make rules, setting, individual character threads etc. later on today when I set up the new subforum.

[icycalm]

New forum is up. Make a thread about your character when you have a general idea of what you want, and you want to start talking about it.

I will now make a thread or two on my favorite settings and start posting images of illustrations from adventures and accessories, just for my own amusement, and as a taste of what's to come. Note that I am not uploading images to my server in this forum, because it often adds those ugly scrollbars and so on (which I have yet to look into how to remove), so you can hotlink images here, and I will save all of them on my hard drive and upload them when I figure out how to fix this problem.

[jeffrobot494]

How are we going to decide ability scores? To be a specialist mage I need to have certain ability scores. Like being a Conjuration specialist requires at least 15 constitution. But the default way of determining ability scores in the PHB means I can't assume I'll have 15 constitution. The default way is to roll 3d6 six times, once for each ability, without making any adjustments. So if I roll sixteen for strength and seven for intelligence, I can't swap them. I'm fine with that, I like how unforgiving it is actually. But I couldn't plan on being a Conjurer ahead of time.

[icycalm]

I've always used the last method of rolling characters in the PHB. And you can roll as many times as our collective patience will allow. So with enough patience you can make whatever you want -- even a Paladin (the most demanding class in terms of ability scores).

It's not fun if people don't get to play exactly the character they want. That's why we are playing games in the first place. You might not get perfect scores, but you'll definitely get your character.

Glad to see you also chose a specialist without me having to prod you in that direction. Makes a huge difference early on.

[icycalm]

22GB torrent of all TSR D&D products including collector's checklist:
https://kickass.so/tsr-d-d-products-bas ... 54653.html

Downloading right now. You too can do so if you want to, but it's not necessary. I can email you whatever stuff you need to have. Either way, don't read anything before you ask me. For the time being the only things you can read are the Player's Handbook and whatever class-specific handbooks interest you.

[danjiro]

I'd love to play with you guys if there's a slot. I've been playing and (mostly) GMing RPGs for over 15 years now, starting with AD&D 2nd Edition. I still have all my books, including my Planescape, Darksun and Ravenloft box sets. Couldn't get myself to part with them! lol

I've gone through a whole host of systems and settings, so I can bring quite a bit of experience to the table. Granted, most of my experience has been as a GM due to my tendency to be extremely picky with GMs in the past, but reading Icy's approach to roleplaying has got me really excited to be a player again for the first time in ages, especially with the online system that Icy's been describing. You also don't have to worry about me spoiling any adventures. I haven't run or played any official Forgotten Realms or Darksun modules (with the exception of Menzoberranzan, but the players didn't get far lol), and the Planescape and Ravenloft one's I ran such a long time ago I doubt I would remember.

[icycalm]

Another awesome idea I had was 2 DMs handling two parties, or one large party that can become divided at some point, etc. Really epic stuff, I mean. But first we need to setup a basic party, get the new players used to the rules and the idea of role-playing itself, learn how to use the virtual table-top correctly, and then we can start thinking about expanding. So I'll keep you posted as to if we'll manage to take this to the next level. Or if a player drops out you're next in line.


Edit: Really jealous you still have all your stuff... My mother threw all mine away.

[danjiro]

Wow, it's actually been over 25 years now. How time flies lol.

[icycalm]

Around 23-24 years for me since I started playing... 20 years since I stopped.

[danjiro]

The double DM idea sounds awesome. I'd be totally up for it. I'll start messing around with Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds in the meantime and see if I can code some sort of AD&D 2nd Edition support. I've been looking around online and every plugin I can find seems old and unmaintained.

Of course, I'd also love to be a player so if you guys find yourselves needing an extra person just let me know.

[Hanged Man]

I've finished reading the Player's Handbook, so if I can help any of you with something - just ask.

[jeffrobot494]

I think it would be really fun for us to not know who each other's characters are at the outset. We could learn about each other through roleplaying. So maybe we should limit what we say publicly about our backgrounds? For instance, maybe I have orders from my father to find and recruit talented warriors for my family's retinue while out on my travels. I could reveal that to people I deemed worthy at the appropriate time. Stuff like that would be cool. Maybe you guys are already censoring your backgrounds. Just something to think about.

[icycalm]

I'd like to give everyone an idea of the kind of campaigns I make.

I only run officially published adventures. Why? Because they are the best. DMs who improvise adventures or who write their own are giving their players an inferior experience, because:

1. Improvisation is inherently inferior. This is why stage plays and movies are written in advance and not improvised in front of the audience or the camera on the spot: because if they were they'd suck. There's no way around this. Improvisation sucks and only people who don't understand how art works practice it and defend it.

2. If a DM could write adventures at, or higher than, the level of the published ones, he'd have his adventures published. It's as simple as that. Are there exceptions to this rule? Maybe, but I bet you anything you want that your previous DM was not among them, because that's how bad the chances are that any given DM will be an exception to this rule: they are astronomical. Besides, even IF a DM COULD write adventures at the level of the published ones, we are talking DOZENS if not HUNDREDS of hours of work ON TOP of the work a DM must normally do. So maybe I COULD write an adventure at the level of the published ones, but I just don't have the time for it. Or, if I had the time, I'd rather write a novel with the same ideas instead. Or I'd rather just put the time I am saving by using official adventures into playing more sessions, because playing is more fun to me (which is why I wouldn't be a very good writer of adventures in the first place: the born writer prefers the writing over the playing, and vice versa).

This doesn't mean that there is no improvisation in my campaigns. Even within the scope of an official adventure, there is still tons of room for improvisation, given that there is no "correct" way to finish an adventure: your party will botch as many adventures as they successfully complete, and the campaign will go on regardless (not to mention that "successful completion" can also take many forms, many of which will need to be improvised). And then of course the adventures will have to be linked into a campaign, which again will require considerable improvisation.

So, what I want to create is the following. I want to create a world into which ALL the currently available official adventures are SIMULTANEOUSLY in play, and where players decide which ones to play, and in which order. Imagine an overworld map, like the ones you get in a game like Baldur's Gate, only instead of this map containing locations of a SINGLE game, it contains ENTIRE GAMES. So that by moving towards one such location, you are moving towards a brand-new game. And of course instead of the map featuring just the area around Baldur's Gate, it will feature the entire Realms.

Of course, the map will not contain 10th-level adventures, when your party first starts out. It will contain all the adventures (at least a dozen of them, if not more) which your party can handle at that point, and as you play adventures, and your characters level up, more and more locations/adventures will appear (including in demiplanes like Ravenloft and all the planes in Planescape).

So, you might be in the middle of an adventure, and hear news about a war happening halfway across the world. This is a signal from me to you that there is an adventure there which you are capable of tackling, if you choose to. I want you to have at least half a dozen such "adventure hooks" once you finish your first adventure, so that the party will have to discuss and decide on which one to pursue.

At the same time, rejecting an adventure doesn't mean it's off the table forever. This is because adventures usually have several starting hooks, and if you reject one now, I could try another hook again a few weeks down the line. Think of it like GTA, in a way, where there are a bunch of main missions, which you can tackle in any order, and a bunch of side missions, that you can tackle or not tackle. Only here ALL of them can be tackled in any order, and all of them can be tackled or not tackled, simply because I have so many available to me (and I have so many available to me because I have the 22GB torrent; in the old days this was impossible without spending 5,000 dollars on the game, and so the richer your DM, the more deep the campaign that you could play).

And of course, there will also be player-driven mini-adventures in all of this. I may not want to write an entire adventure of my own, but if one player has put it into his head to raise an undead army or become the ruler of a castle -- and as long as his companions are willing to support his plans -- I will let him attempt whatever it is he wants to attempt, and see what comes out of it. So, if he wants to buy a castle and see if he can run it, I will design a castle for him and a situation in which to try it out (taking, as always, as much of this material as possible from officially published products). If a player wants to travel to a distant desert or jungle or continent, simply to see what's there, I will accommodate that too (while throwing on his way as many officially published adventures as I can, so that, if he ever does make it to his final destination, it will feel like a major accomplishment to him -- not to mention the OTHER officially published adventures I will have ready for him once he reaches there).

[jeffrobot494]

This is so awesome. I'm excited.

[jeffrobot494]

Found a really awesome online resource. Every reference book for second edition (I think) viewable in an organized manner in your browser.

http://www.purpleworm.org/rules/

[danjiro]

Found a cool looking map designer site which can export to PNG for integration into Roll20:

http://pyromancers.com/

[icycalm]

I haven't forgotten about this, nor given up on the idea. But between my various projects, PA, and my continually postponed travel plans, it's hard to fit this in my schedule. Until I manage to do so, have a funny example of a stupid RPG group (I've actually known groups that play like this):