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Cosmic War

Galactic War discussion

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Unread postby recoil » 30 Jan 2015 04:28

I sent you $50.

As for the color for The Synchronous, I pick white.
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Unread postby jeffrobot494 » 30 Jan 2015 04:36

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/hex- ... ors.67610/

Just made the mod thread and I'm talking with cptconundrum.
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Unread postby jeffrobot494 » 30 Jan 2015 04:53

Emailed you the color file.
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Unread postby Agentx » 30 Jan 2015 04:58

I've sent $50.
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Unread postby jeffrobot494 » 30 Jan 2015 05:02

Let me know if there's anything else I can do. Waiting to hear from cptconundrum.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 05:03

Apart from everyone changing their PA names to include their tags as soon as possible, that's it for now.

And I have received recoil's and Robby's $$$ so I am going on a holiday now. So long, suckers!

/jk
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 05:07

Oh yeah, systems. That's the top priority now. The last stumbling block. We need to design one home system each, and find another 6 ones. Do this as soon as you can. Nominate other systems too. We need 9 in all as soon as possible.

And either make sure you give them cool names, or rename ready-made systems you found if they are called "Hot Sausage" or something. Stupid names will not be allowed in this universe, and god help me trying to enforce this rule with the other clans.
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Unread postby jeffrobot494 » 30 Jan 2015 05:15

Iban, would you design our home system?

Edit: I'm sensing the slight need for faction-specific threads.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 05:19

iban checks the forum once a month. So you'll need to PM him, or better yet find him on Steam or in the PA in-game chat, tell him to edit his PA name, and ask him to design your home system, and also give you a bunch of his systems for the first galaxy. We could even have all the neutral systems designed by iban -- they sure as heck will be more interesting than anything the rest of us can make with such short notice.

recoil and I will still need to make ours. But the 7 remaining ones might very well be made by iban.
Last edited by icycalm on 30 Jan 2015 05:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 05:21

Also, let's keep everything in this thread for now, and after GW #1 is complete I'll probably make a "Cosmic War" subforum, and move all the relevant posts there.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 05:23

Basically, ask iban to give you the names of 7 of his favorite systems. He doesn't have to design anything if he doesn't have the time. It's better this way, since we don't want him taking too long and delaying the start of the game. So don't ask him to design anything.
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Unread postby recoil » 30 Jan 2015 05:40

Here's the overall description for The Synchronous:

http://www.uberent.com/pa/2013/12/17/lo ... -3-reveal/

The Synchronous is led by Commander Metrarch, who reactivated in a derelict transport ship with twenty other inactive Commanders. Able to activate twelve of the twenty, Metrarch and the other Commanders repaired the ship, finding nothing in its computers to give them a clue as to where they were. Metrarch was able to pilot it to the nearest planet in the system, forming The Synchronous soon afterward.

Piecing together what he could of his memory, Metrarch's core belief is only machines can bring true peace to the galaxy. Biologics breed strife, always seeking to dominate others, whether it is for the greater good or not, especially the ones he remembers as Progenitors. The perfect society will be one that is biologic free. Any machine that does not share this belief must be shunned, or in extreme cases, eliminated.


I think I should get ten additional teammates as described in the lore, lol.

Also, there's a description of a system conquered by Metrarch:

Commander Metrarch monitored the progress from his base on the far side of the system that his forces were now sweeping. Purging was nearly complete on the forth planet; once completed, his forces would move on to the next until all seven worlds in the system had been cleansed of biologics. Another system free from the chaos bred of them, and given the peace that only machines could provide. Together with the other Commanders of his faction, Metrarch would carve out a perfect society where machines could live unified and free, one sector at a time.


I suppose having a home system with seven planets would be a bit much though.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 05:49

I think my faction's description gives me 7 commanders. Or some other faction's, at any rate.

But I sent the extra commanders out to other systems, so I am left with 2, apart from myself. Same with you and jeff, if his description gives him more. And same with your 7-planet initial system. You took that over and now moved to this one, in which you find me and jeff with our commanders.

This is our universe. We'll take as much of the official script as we can use, and bend, or even outright discard the rest.

As a general system design rule, we want a maximum of planets per system as there are players per team. So, 3 players per team means a maximum of 3 planets per system (and less is preferable, so that there will be the possibility of multiple players per team on a single planet, which is more fun than the straight 1v1s we'd get otherwise).

Obviously, some of iban's current maps will be exceptions, but we'll use them anyway. And also, there is always the possibility of 2v2v1s or something, so that some systems will see more action in terms of player numbers.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 06:00

On the official website, we'll have a "Credits" sidebar, saying something like this:

STARRING
icycalm as Invictus
jeffrobot494 as Nemicus
recoil as Metrarch

All the clan leaders that want to join will have to get cool names for themselves. Ideally, each will choose a unique commander (there are more than enough to cover a couple dozen clans) and integrate him in their clan's/faction's backstory in the manner of the official ones.

I haven't thought of how we'll handle the rest of the players, their commander choices, and so on. We'll take it one step at a time, I guess.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 06:19

I guess the only real choice is to have each faction/clan use only ONE commander. I.e. all players using the same commander as the leader. That way you leave all other commanders available for other clans.

The other option would be to keep the leaders unique, and all other players, across all clans/factions, will use a generic "subcommander" model (as seen in Uber's version of the Galactic War). We will reserve a single commander for this purpose.

I don't see an aesthetically consistent third option, unless we are prepared to mod the game or something.
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Unread postby jeffrobot494 » 30 Jan 2015 06:38

That subcommander option is pretty epic. It will look cool in the lobby screen. It also means we will be able to recognize which comm is the supreme commander in a battle. What happens if the supreme commander is killed? Does his 2nd in command replace him?

Edit: In keeping with PA's rules, maybe your faction loses the game when your supreme commander dies?
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Unread postby ChevRage » 30 Jan 2015 07:09

The biggest problem I can see right now with players having the same "subcommanders" is that it would make it extremely hard to track which players died. PA Stats doesn't seem to track commanders at all, and screenshots wouldn't show who is using which commander in the battle (because they'd look alike).

It'd probably make more sense to simply have all of the victors emerge unscathed since they could probably just repair whichever commanders blew up. After all, they do get left behind as "scrap" despite blowing up in a nuclear blast.

I like the ideas, but I don't know how both can work together.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 07:45

chevvy, we won't be tracking down which players died for the winning side. For the losing side, all PLAYERS AND COMMANDERS involved in the battle will die, but for the winning side, only COMMANDERS will die. I.e. if the winners had 3 commanders on the galactic map, but lost one in the battle, they will have only 2 commanders on the galactic map after the battle, but STILL their full 3 players.

It's a pretty cool compromise between immersion and practicality, if you think about it. You'll understand how it will work in practice. This is the most complex solution we can implement, without making the game effectively unplayable. I don't think we can make it any more complex any time soon.

And yeah, I am leaning towards the subcommander option too, jeff.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 07:48

As for this:

jeffrobot494 wrote:What happens if the supreme commander is killed? Does his 2nd in command replace him?

Edit: In keeping with PA's rules, maybe your faction loses the game when your supreme commander dies?


But if he loses the galactic war, doesn't he also lose the cosmic one? After all, if he's dead he's dead, so he can't continue the war at all.

So maybe the clone commanders for all players in a faction/clan is a better option, because you CAN'T identify the supreme commander, so we don't run into these aesthetic issues.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 08:02

I am thinking of including the fourth and final faction too, in the initial war. kikilouis is pretty active in the game, and he's been hanging out in our Mumble quite a bit the last few days. If you add in Masa and Starnerd3/StarofSweden, who are both pretty dependable, we've got the fourth faction down -- though it will mean I'll have to rearrange the existing ones to make them all balanced again. So this is what I have:

icycalm as Invictus, leader of Legonis Machina (LM)
StarofSweden
agentx

jeffrobot494 as Nemicus, leader of The Foundation (F)
theiban
chevvy

recoil as Metrarch, leader of The Synchronous (S)
gmase
Some guy

fede16071995 as Osiris, leader of The Revenants (R)
kikilouis
Masahiro9891

I think The Foundation and The Synchronous are slightly OP compared to the other two, but it's impossible to get a perfect balance anyway, and that's the best that can be done, I think, under the circumstances. I also have cultural, temperamental and language issues to think about, when coming up with the teams, and I don't really give a toss who wins as long as we see some good fights, which I am sure we will. The more people are added to the teams later on, the easier it will be to balance them, and if the other clans join in, and we all merge together, balance goes out the window and we have a real war.

I just need to talk to the new guys and get them to participate.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 08:23

Emails sent to fede, Masa and StarofSweden. I don't have kikilouis' email, so I'll talk to him when I see him on Steam.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 08:27

Personally, I don't like the Invictus commander very much. I love his lore and his name, but his model is so-so for me. So what I plan to do, if other clans join in, is work it into the plot that Invictus was half destroyed in a battle, and had himself rebuilt into another commander model. And with the joining up of the factions, he also decided to rename himself (in the manner of Roman emperors, and so on), as he became the leader of a much larger faction then (and he will pick the name of the commander model that I will choose).

I will write all this out very nicely in atmospheric prose on the official Cosmic War site. As new chapters of the war unfold, I will post little blog posts detailing what has happened.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 08:32

Essentially, once the four official factions are merged into The Cult (due to the massive threat of powerful new factions appearing in the form of the other clans), we will be free to write the story of the universe, and the backstories and factions of all the other commanders, as we see fit. Clans can come and go, they can split up or join together, and so on, and my rule system and writing skill and imagination are flexible enough to accommodate anything that can conceivably happen.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jan 2015 09:53

I thought about it long and hard, and I've decided to go with jeff's idea. I.e. only the leaders are allowed to use unique commanders, and everyone else, across all clans/factions will use a subcommander designated for this purpose: the Centurion, which looks cool and is freely available to all with the base game. Leaders might have to spend some money on a commander once all the free ones are gone, but I am sure they won't have a problem with it.

And if a supreme commander dies in a battle, the subcommanders lose their nerve and immediately flee the system, forfeiting it to the remaining factions. This will increase the strategic dimension of the game, since the leaders generally tend to be some of their respective clans' best players. Do they throw themselves in every single fight, and risk losing all if things go wrong? (and note that the opponent will be able to rush the leader, and if they kill him in the game, the fight is over, even if a bunch of his subcommanders are still standing).

I think this will make both the turn-based phase and the actual battles far more tense and exciting. Merely seeing a unique commander in a lobby or the commander screen will raise the temperature of the participants and the viewers, and open up a whole new dimension of strategies and tactics in-game. Cosmic War takes sniping to a whole new level!
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Unread postby gmase » 30 Jan 2015 17:24

Okay, my suggestions:

1. Communication:

icycalm wrote:emailing their moves to a previously agreed neutral party


No need for a neutral arbitrator. We can post encrypted move orders in a forum. Once all teams have posted their move orders, they post the same message but this time unencrypted along with the key they used so everyone can validate it. We can use this online cypher http://aes.online-domain-tools.com/ (very easy to do).

2. A incentive to fight:

So imagine the galactic war just started with 4 teams with 3 Commanders each. Both team A and B attack team C and manage to kill all its Commanders. C is eliminated but both A and B lose a Commanders in those attacks. Then A and B fight against each other and A wins but keeps only 1 Commander alive. Team D who have been idle (or retreating from all the battles) finds itself in a very comfortable possition with all 3 Commanders to kill the last one from team A and win the galaxy.

The only logical strategy is to stay away from all batlles until there are only 2 teams left. If a team decides to go for an enemy homeworld they risk themselves both to be eliminated by the defenders or to get some of their Comms killed and be in disadvantage for the rest of the teams. That's why I proposed (https://forums.uberent.com/threads/gala ... st-1062061) that teams can get bonus Commanders to use in future battles by winning a batlle or eliminating an enemy clan (maybe not for winning battles and just for eliminating a clan). So if team A kills team C after losing a Commander, they will get 2 Commanders for eliminating them and they will have 3-1+2=4 Commanders to face the remaining teams. (Lore) We can justify it as capturing defeated Commanders, they repair them and install a virus to change their minds.

3. Don't you retreat, fag!

The possibility of retreating from every battle takes away most of the strategic depth of the Galaxy Layer(tm). You will only fight the battles you want and that will probably mean that we'll only see 3v3 battles. If there is not a retreat possibility, the attacker has the advantage of deciding when and how the battles start. To prevent the very feasible numerical disadvantage, I suggest the option for the defender to reinforce a system right before the battle begins by moving Commanders from nearby systems to engage in the battle till the numbers are even.

3. More Commanders, more battles:

3v3v3v3 with a leader that if defeated makes a team lose is again against attacking at all. You can't leave your Commander alone so the best option is again moving your 3 Commanders all together everytime. That is why I suggest, in addition to the bonus Commanders you can get (see 2), to start the galaxy war with 6 (or 9) Commanders for each team. Every player gets 2 Commanders in the galactic layer.

Having more Commanders per team than those needed for the biggest possible battle (in this first galaxy that is a 3v3) is a must. With 6 Commanders, you can send 3 to attack and be sure that your attackers won't be in numerical disadvantage and you still have 3 more Comms to defend your homeworld or to reinforce your attacking party in case they suffer casualties.


I think my suggestions add some vital incentives for the attackers at the cost of complicating the galactic layer a little bit. Otherwise it will go straight to one of these 2 situations:

1. The first attacker digs his own grave, losing commanders while the others teams await to defeat what is left of the attacker or defender.

2. Nothing happens until the 4 teams engage in a 3v3v3v3 and this becomes just a FFA clan war.

Please point out whatever language mistakes I made so I can edit them.
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