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Insomnia Legion

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Unread postby Robomoo » 24 Aug 2017 00:46

Proposed build bars:

buildbar v1.png

unit buildbar v2.png
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Aug 2017 00:51

There are still some inconsistencies and gaps, especially in the structure menu, but I don't know the units very well, and especially the Legion ones, to check them.

I guess we'll have to do some research to finalize this before moving forward with implementation.

If anyone reading this knows how to correct our errors, we would appreciate the help and effort saved.
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Aug 2017 00:56

To be clear, I want T2 factories (= Legion T1) to be made by T1 fabbers, T3 factories (= MLA T2) to be made by T2 fabbers, and T4 factories (= Legion T2) to be made by T3 fabbers.

Not sure how the Titans would work, but there has to be a corresponding way to do it.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 24 Aug 2017 10:25

T1 - T4 fabber progression:

factories.png

combat.png

utilities.png


1st image is of the factory tab, 2nd the combat tab, 3rd utility. So the first image shows the factory tab for a T1 vehicle fabber, then a T2 vehicle fabber, up to T4. It would be slightly different for e.g. the bot fabbers.
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Aug 2017 10:25

Weird that the orbital factories are not in the factories menus and Unit Cannon is. It should be the other way around.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 24 Aug 2017 10:26

The Starcannon, Legion's orbital unit cannon, is in the orbital structures menu by default. Just to confuse things further.
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Aug 2017 10:26

See if we can fix this. Put the orbital factories, both Legion and MLA, above the orbital launchers, and the MLA Unit Cannon next to the Legion one somewhere.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 24 Aug 2017 10:31

buildbar_v2.png
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Aug 2017 10:31

That makes much more sense.
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Aug 2017 10:34

Actually, why not put the orbital titans next to the other ones? Then you can plainly see that what is missing is a naval titan. That's why people have been asking for one in the forum. I think someone actually made one. We should look into that. It would be a good counter for the submerged bot titan.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 24 Aug 2017 10:36

buildbar_v3.png
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Aug 2017 10:38

In fact the "Orbital Structure" tab is not needed at all. Some of its structures should go in the combat tab, and some in the utility. But then you would have to add another line to the menu, so maybe just leave it.
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Aug 2017 12:46

For the Holocene/Ragnarok differentiation, I guess we can't have the Holocene destroying a planet and its moons, because then we would need to model a bigger explosion, which we can't.

So an easier solution would be to have one of them destroy a planet up to about say 500 radius (and be made much cheaper as a consequence), and the other for bigger ones. And I think we should switch the names around because the Ragnarok sounds like the more destructive one, while the Holocene building looks the more powerful one. So simply switching the names around should do it.

Let me know if the radius limit for the Ragnarok (which will be renamed to Holocene) is easy to code.
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Unread postby icycalm » 26 Aug 2017 12:38

Another change I'd like to make is to mod a main menu slot advertising and counting down to our events. I think mikey controls the main menu of the base game, and there's no way he'd ever give us equal status with Exodus, on top of the fact I don't want to talk to him again. So we will mod the menu ourselves and plaster our logos all over the place like Exodus does. Let me know when you've made some progress in this regard.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 21 Sep 2017 11:37

Here is our public repository for the mod, with an MIT license added as requested by mikey:

https://bitbucket.org/Robomoo/insomnia-legion/

He also asked for a CC-BY license, but that's a commercial one, so we are holding out on that one until he explains to us why he wants it.

Also, Insomnia Legion is a standalone mod for the time being. Once I get back to work on it I will see if it can be changed to an addon to Legion.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 24 Sep 2017 15:28

I've noticed only fairly recently that the symbols on units' strategic icons correspond with the layers they are able to hit. Vertical line (|) for orbital, forward slash (/) for air, horizontal line (-) for surface and backward slash (\) for underwater and water surface. So the anchor's symbol for instance is like this: | /_
because it can hit orbital, air and surface units.

I've also noticed that Uber dropped the ball a little and were not fully consistent with this convention. It would be easy for us to correct their mistakes and include updated strategic icons in all of our mods. Here is a list of all the discrepancies I've found:

-Dox can hit air, with no indication in their symbol.
-Bluehawks can hit orbital.
-Gil-E can hit air.
-Stingrays can hit air and orbital.
-Catapults can hit orbital.
-The Barracuda cannot hit land units, and shouldn't have a '-' in their symbol.
-All bombers don't indicate that their bombs will hit underwater, but maybe this is intentional.
-Anchors and Omegas are described as being able to attack "everything", but cannot attack underwater.

Some other suggestions for changes:
-Stingrays, Catapults, Hornets and Bluehawks share the 'tactical missile' symbol. It is difficult to distinguish at a glance from the artillery symbol (shared by the Grenadier, Pelter, Holkins, Sheller and Leviathan), and unhelpful since they all can target different things.
-Orcas, Barracudas and Krakens all have a sideways missile symbol that correlates to nothing in particular.
-The '.'s in some units' symbols seem to denote greater range. The '.'s in the nuke launcher and anti-nuke symbols therefore seem superfluous as they are not the longer-ranged version of anything.
-The multiple '.'s in the Manhattan's symbol seem entirely misplaced since it essentially has 0 range. Maybe it should just have an 'X' to show that it's more similar to a boombot.
-The icon for the unit cannon is a bit of a mess and could be simplified.

Some of these decisions could be justified by the idea that '/' = flak, and since Dox for example technically don't shoot flak they don't merit a '/' symbol. I think this is most likely what the developers were thinking when they came up with these symbols, but they are not even consistent with it since anchors for instance definitely don't shoot flak but still get a '/'. This combined with updates to the game's balance not being reflected cosmetically is probably what led to the messiness.

Here are some pictures of the build bar so you can see what I'm talking about:

build bar 1.png

build bar sicons.png


Edit: I've checked these things now. All in-game unit descriptions can be trusted. Looking at palobby.com can sometimes cause confusion because in the weapon information it will say that a unit can hit underwater units, for example, but the unit can't actually target them, only damage them via splash damage if they happen to be nearby.
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Unread postby icycalm » 01 Oct 2017 02:30

In reference to an umpteenth balance mod by Stuart:

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/rel- ... st-1143982

eyhey34 wrote:Your mod suffers from something that legion also does, the need to add things to specialized units or further broaden the effect of units.
Scout having a weapon
single laser firing at air
mend getting a weapon

Those things reduce the complexity of unit compositions and i do not see how they improve the game in any way.
Why make a galata if your laser turret can shoot air as well?
Why send units forward with your scout when it can fire itself already?


Sounds like good advice we should keep in mind while rebalancing the Legion units: Don't broaden the use of units. Narrow it down instead, and you'll end up with a more complex game.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 08 Oct 2017 19:55

Gitaxian just pointed a few things out to me via Discord DM to do with the suggested changes to the unit icons:

Gitaxian wrote:The sideways missile on some naval units indicates they have torpedoes
And the dotted line don't correspond to longer range
They mean indirect fire
Nukes and Antinukes have it because terrain will never block them, and Manhattans have it because their explosions can damage units through terrain


So that would mean that the torpedo launcher and the Narwhal (T1 AA boat) should get the sideways missile icon. Or maybe we should just do away with it altogether, since it is synonymous with the '\' icon.
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