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Cosmic War

Clan Wars 3.0

Moderator: JC Denton

Clan Wars 3.0

Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 21:24

Clan Wars 1.0 was Exodus Clan Wars.

Clan Wars 2.0 was the Insomnia Clan Wars format we've been running for the past three months.

Clan Wars 3.0 is the new format we are starting from this coming Saturday, in order to respond to the phenomenal growth of the event.

The problem is that, given current server tech, the sweet spot for getting the best Wars is 4-5 teams of 15-20 players in total. I have determined this after three months of weekly Wars, and I have not the slightest doubt that this is the sweet spot. Yesterday, however, we got 7 clans with 27 players in total, and the game just wasn't fun. I mean there were fun aspects in it, but overall, it was nowhere near as fun as the previous 2-3 Wars, and the reason was the crowding.

Let me emphasize that the problem is not my format. My format is perfect and genius. The problem is server tech. If we had no performance issues, I would have doubled the size of the system, so that all 7 clans would have had plenty of space to expand before the crunch happened, and the sim would have run at 100% the whole time, and everyone would have had a blast. There is no doubt in my mind that bigger is better, if the server can handle it. Unfortunately, however, current servers cannot handle 7-team, 27-player games with large enough systems to allow everyone to expand for a while, and have fun, so something must be done about it (and it would have been an 8-team, 30-player game, if pXs had played, as they planned to, in which case the game would have lagged even more and crashed even sooner).

The solution is to find a way to hit the sweet spot of 4-5 teams and 15-20 players every week, until server tech improves. And I think that, after thinking up lots of possibilities, Elite and I have found the solution. I will post the raw chatlogs between us below, and give everyone 48 hours to read them and make suggestions, and by midweek I will unveil the new Clan Wars format in full. Enjoy, and let me know what you think about our plans.
Last edited by icycalm on 29 Oct 2017 22:46, edited 2 times in total.
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icycalm
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Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08

Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 21:35

icycalm
I have figured out that the most fun Clan Wars are 4-5 clans and 15-20 players
Today we had 7 clans and 26 players

Elite Sardaukar
yes 4-5 clans is ideal

icycalm
If you have more clans/players, you need bigger systems to allow teams to expand, but the tech can't support it currently
We'll have to think of a solution

Elite Sardaukar
the other option is a round robin
but i dont think we can have too many of these in a week without burning the players out

icycalm
We'll have to think about it
Maybe some clans just won't show very much
Another option is 2 simultaneous wars
Whoever wants 2 victories can split his players

Elite Sardaukar
or could have a quick pregame to see who gets knocked out

icycalm
I host one war, you host the other

Elite Sardaukar
interesting

icycalm
How do you do the pregame?

Elite Sardaukar
smaller planet

icycalm
Yeah, but small clans will get destroyed
They will not enjoy it

Elite Sardaukar
first teams to get knocked out dont go to the wars
yes
i agree
both have drawbacks

icycalm
We could have a 20-player limit on the lobby
Any players over that, go in a second simultaneous war
And the bigger clans can split their players to try to gain 2 victories

Elite Sardaukar
we need to know who is coming before the game starts

icycalm
We can start making things more formal
I am going to catch a nap
Let's talk about it during the week

Elite Sardaukar
kk chat later
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icycalm
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 21:41

icycalm
Unless you have a better idea, I have settled on the following
We make two divisions: one for Uber-Platinum (which inherits the current leaderboard), and a Gold-Silver (which starts a new leaderboard)
Bronzes can't play in Clan Wars (though they can play in Clan League). They just have to practice and get into Silver (edited)
We play an upper division war one week, and a lower one the next
Also, in order to not get the same division on the same time every week, we alternate the times two in a row
i.e. we play at 15:00 UTC twice in a row, then twice at 22:00, etc.
The Wars will become much smaller as a result, at first, but eventually they will grow to a comfortable size again, and if they ever reach 20-30 players, we turn Gold into its own division, and that should solve the problem
Eventually, the goal will be to reunite all divisions, when server tech allows for it
But until then, this is the best solution that I see that both allows me to host all games, but without increasing my workload
That will mean that half the players only play every week, but it will give people an incentive to set up League games
We are already at the point where BSE and BRN could play 6v6 or 7v7 in the League
And in the League, Silvers and Golds can mix with Ubers and Platinums in the same team, so that event will end up being the more inclusive one, on top of being the more reliable one in terms of fun
If you are ok with the above, I will write an article explaining it in-depth, and announce it midweek
This coming Saturday it will be the upper division playing at 22:00 UTC, next Saturday the lower one playing at the same time, and the week after the upper division playing at 15:00 UTC etc.

icycalm
Another advantage is that we will only need to make 1 system for CW every 2 weeks, since both divisions can use it

Elite Sardaukar
Personally I think rank should be completely left out of it, If I feel like playing with the lower ranked brn memebrs I could always throw away my rank in games and drop back to a silver, I could also just have an alt account with multiple ranks. I'm concerned this will get exploited, What about the clans that only have 3 players are we going to split them and disuade them from participating (edited)
fyi it is also possible to edit the ranks for the display rank mod
I don't believe this will necessary reduce the amount of team participating, was the whole idea of this to reduce the player count in the lobby or reduce the number of teams participating in the event? (edited)

Elite Sardaukar
if we could limit the teams participating to 5 it would make system creation much easier
but either way we have the issue of no shows
if we knew clans wouldn't no show we could rotate people in and out, so every 3 weeks a team doesnt play
if player numbers are the concern the other option would be to cap how many players a clan can bring to a war
its hard to predict possible turnouts when we don't have complete information on rosters for each clan

icycalm
Why would anyone prefer to play in the lower division?

Elite Sardaukar
depends on distribution of ranks for the clan really

icycalm
There will be clans with 1 or 2 people in both divisions
There will be wars with 10 people

Elite Sardaukar
i just dont like relying on a ranking system that is broken (edited)

icycalm
People will get used to it
Okay, I get it
Still prefer it to all other known solutions
Or to the clusterfuck of yesterday

Elite Sardaukar
i know exactly what you are saying
whats the point of people playing to a certain rank if there rank is not even active for example (edited)

icycalm
I cannot get to Uber or Platinum, even inactive
Other people can

Elite Sardaukar
I also know that some of the brn players will abandon the event if it is rank dependent so i am a little biased

icycalm
Why?

Elite Sardaukar
they refuse to play ranked

icycalm
Even one game a week?

Elite Sardaukar
because the ladder is broken
yes

icycalm
What does that even mean?

Elite Sardaukar
ther are a lot of things, might be easier to explain on voip

icycalm
Is Diskraip not one of the best players in the game?
Am I not a mediocre player?

Elite Sardaukar
he is good no doubt

icycalm
And I am mediocre no doubt
so the ladder works

Elite Sardaukar
not really
with how much diskraip plays ranked it is nearly impossible for someone to drop his rank

icycalm
I see

Elite Sardaukar
because he has what is called a stable rank

icycalm
I thought there was decay

Elite Sardaukar
I'll see if i can find some more info on it hold up
no decay
decay would help

icycalm
So you want Diskraip to play less?

Elite Sardaukar
when you go inactive for a few weeks you can potentially move up the ladder more because your rank becomes more unstable
no not at all
i dont care for 1v1s
he can play as much as he wants
its the system that alllows people to exploit it and by saying that i dont think he has exploited it
just a victim of circumstance

icycalm
I see
But no matter the system, Diskraip would sitll be Uber and I would still be Silver

Elite Sardaukar
not necessarily
you might be gold or more
If i had to get my first rank again i might place silver or gold
and if i played heaps of matches to climb up my rank would stabilise
and it would be harder for me to move up

icycalm
What about river's ladder?
Isn't it better?

Elite Sardaukar
it looks kinda like the old pastats ladder
i havnt used it tbh
but the system is better imo
not sure if it has decay or not either
I'll have a look

icycalm
But it doesn't matter since you still don't want to play 1v1s
And some of your friends don't either
Look, I would prefer 40-player games

Elite Sardaukar
i have my rank whats the incentive to play

icycalm
But the tech isn't there yet

Elite Sardaukar
a lot of the uber ranked players are inactive
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icycalm
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 21:46

icycalm
You will lose your rank soon
Everyone loses it if they don't play

Elite Sardaukar
if they reset the ladder yes

icycalm
You mean you can keep Plat forever?

Elite Sardaukar
yes
i havnt played a ranked for a few months

icycalm
I thought you had to play at least once a week or month

Elite Sardaukar
nope

icycalm
I see
Yeah, that won't work then

Elite Sardaukar
if i play a game and win it guarantee i'll be top 5 plat again
if elodea comes back and plays a game and wins
he will probs be no1 again

icycalm
Yeah it's broken
Okay, let's think some more of a solution
I will write if you if I have a complete proposal

Elite Sardaukar
alpha kept his uber top rank for ages just by playing 1 game every 2 weeks when no good players were on so he could beat a silver
kk
having said that some people might like it better than the alternatives

icycalm
We can demand an active rank
Still broken, but not so much

Elite Sardaukar
we could but we run the risk of losing some players that dont want to risk there rank

icycalm
Their loss

Elite Sardaukar
if you dont play you keep the title with no risk

icycalm
The whole reason we are in this problem is that we have too many people

Elite Sardaukar
players or teams?

icycalm
Both
We want to find a solution that allows the event to grow
Splitting it into 2 accomplishes this
Instead of 20 people having fun, we have 40
Also, we put the spotlight on the League
When players can't play half the weeks, they can play in the League
If you want to play with your Gold members, you can play with them in the League
Anyway, we have a couple more days to think about it, but by Wednesday we need a decision
Also, if you can get mikey to reset the ladder once a month, the problem is mostly solved

Elite Sardaukar
what about player capping the games and team capping

icycalm
And who gets to play?

Elite Sardaukar
teams could decide who they put in each event
run 2 servers
smaller teams wont be able to split anyways

icycalm
I want to host all games
And you are mixing solutions
I want a comprehensive solution, and you are throwing at me every half-idea you have thought
I need a comprehensive, complete solution in like 48 hours

Elite Sardaukar
round robin events

icycalm
That's the League I think

Elite Sardaukar
5 teams each week
and a spreadsheet can dictate the order of who sits out first
if some of the playing teams dont show the other teams can play in there spot

icycalm
My leaderboard doesn't work if we do this
Or at least it works worse
I just thought of another solution

Elite Sardaukar
i dont see thats different from splitting the ranks

icycalm
Listen to this
We stop the Wars
And finish Clan League Season 1
The top finishers, go in Clan Wars Division 1
And the the bottom ones in Division 2
It forces everyone to play Clan League
I think it's brilliant

Elite Sardaukar
it is pretty good

icycalm
It doesn't split players
It splits clans

Elite Sardaukar
tbh i think whatever way we go about this we run the risk of loosing players
i do like the idea though

icycalm
Look, my Clan Wars didn't exist before July
The only Clan Wars idea that existed was Exodus'
And people loved it
The only person I have heard say that he didn't like it was Nosebreaker

Elite Sardaukar
at the end of the day this is still an experimental, if something does not work we will find something that does

icycalm
The clans that show every week are CULT, BRN and BSE
We really only need 1-2 clans more to fill up our lobby
APAA showed up to the lobby 10 minutes AFTER the start time yesterday
We cannot depend on them
pXs hasn't played in weeks

Elite Sardaukar
they are disorganised

icycalm
NBT doesn't reply to messages half the time
NW has been talking about playing for 3 months
P is not as bad, but not very good either
They have been talking for months too
TNC, meh
They are temperamental
You have no idea what they will do

Elite Sardaukar
i thinktnc might show up a bit more but that is yet to be seen
indeed

icycalm
We could always reserve 3 teams for us, and open up the other 2 to others
Rotate the other 2 slots

Elite Sardaukar
that is another option

icycalm
Force them to finish their League games, to gain a slot in Clan Wars

Elite Sardaukar
i still think just book a time and force them to show up

icycalm
You cannot book a time if they don't agree to it
They will not agree to any suggestion
They say "I will talk to my mates"

Elite Sardaukar
exodus did

icycalm
And never reply

Elite Sardaukar
i know this is different
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icycalm
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 21:51

icycalm
Oh I see
But Exodus asked us
iirc
The OTHER solution, is to have a slot for the League too

Elite Sardaukar
the game had more actual clans back then though

icycalm
Fewer clans in all

Elite Sardaukar
larger clans
more organised

icycalm
more serious

Elite Sardaukar
bse is the only really newer clan that has grown and is organised from what we have seen

icycalm
Yep

Elite Sardaukar
brn has lost over half its playerbase
to other games
rlm disappeared

icycalm
3 months ago there were no clans
Imagine where we can be in 3 more months, if we don't screw this up

Elite Sardaukar
the game lacked events then
exactly
I raise these concerns because I'm concerned about all of the choices
if we just have the one clusterfuck event people will lose interest
if we split it we might lose some interest
splitting it whichever way is likely preferable

icycalm
"Players get 1 invitation to Clan Wars for every 1 Clan League game they play"
Achieves the extra feat of forcing leaders to use all their players in the League, so they can use them in the Wars
So maybe Diskraip will stay away from the BSE v CULT game and let a junior play
Of course people can cheat by changing names

Elite Sardaukar
hmmmm
interesting

icycalm
What a stupid idea to allow name changes

Elite Sardaukar
i didnt even know i had a rank on rivers mod

icycalm
Yeah
It seems to pull the stats from the normal ladder

Elite Sardaukar
i have never installed it

Elite Sardaukar
this is a good article that explains the PA ranking system anyways for your perusal - https://exodusesports.com/article/plane ... rovements/
How the Planetary Annihilation ladder works, the rating system it uses, and how Uber Entertainment can learn from other games' ranking systems.

icycalm
I read it a while back but without paying much attention because it didn't concern me at the time
We are going to have to go with the 2 divisions
And let the League decide what they are
This way, we lose no players, and we gain players and clans in the League

icycalm
This might mean some smaller wars, when the division happens
E.g. 3-clan wars
Or even 2-clan
Because after the division, there is no guarantee that all clans will show every week
But in the long run it should work out

Elite Sardaukar
would it break the leaderboard if not enough clans show to throw everyone into 1 game?

icycalm
Yes
If you don't let all clans play, the leaderboard loses value
It's another thing if the clan doesn't show, and another thing if they show and you tell them No
The OTHER solution is capping the players
So that when we have 7 clans, 3 players is the maximum
Or even 2 players
This would embolden the smaller clans
It would make them happy
It would also please those who hate asymmetrical teams(edited)

Elite Sardaukar
does pxs fall into that category?

icycalm
They don't have a problem with asymmetrical teams
They just don't like to play when they are 1 or 2 people
Now they have 2 new recruits, but they are complete noobs
But they are training them up

Elite Sardaukar
thats a start
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 21:55

icycalm
The moment pXs got a Discord, they got 2 new recruits
Because I had a Discord to link in the Steam forum

Elite Sardaukar
promethean has a discord

icycalm
Can I go there?

Elite Sardaukar
its deserted anyways

icycalm
I have all the clan Discords

Elite Sardaukar
i dont think they use it

icycalm
I want to be in them, and I want to be able to link them on my site
I told pXs to get a Discord 2 days ago
I practially forced them

Elite Sardaukar
wait
you have linked the brn discord?

icycalm
Not yet
But I want to make a clan page
With all the info on each clan
So people can decide whom to join

Elite Sardaukar
sounds like pokemon go already :smiley:

icycalm
I am not familiar with those games
Not sure what you mean

Elite Sardaukar
in it you can choose 3 teams
then battle the other teams

icycalm
I see

Elite Sardaukar
funny if you have played it
not really relevant though

icycalm
I plan to play the first at some point, just to see what it's like

Elite Sardaukar
the first pokemon

icycalm
Yeah

Elite Sardaukar
I enjoyed it but its a generational thing
it was relevant when i was a teenager
I like this idea
about the clan page

icycalm
I can make it in a couple hours
Problem is people not helping me when I ask for Steam groups or clan logos
iban, NBT
They are not doing this stuff

Elite Sardaukar
did i give yopu the brn logos and stuff?

icycalm
I got some of it from your Steam group etc.
Small version of the logo, etc.
I have to use the small version, because the other clans only have small versions
Exodus has a great logo, but they don't play
I think they might return some day
Just like TNC returned
I think, in the long run, everyone will return
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icycalm
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 22:00

icycalm
Another Clan War solution
Similar to your round robin
We play a Clan War over 3 Saturdays

Elite Sardaukar
and rotate the teams?

icycalm
We use a lottery to divide the clans into 2 groups
Randomly
Let's say we have 8 clans
One Saturday 4 clans fight
The other Saturday the other 4
And the top 2 from each war fight the third Saturday
If a clan doesn't show, it loses its spot, and the other 3 fight
If, because of this, we fall below 20 players, we add some indies
So we are always guaranteed a 20-player war
All of this produces a winner
And he gets 1 victory on the board
So we get 1 victory every 3 weeks
This format should be able to accommodate 10 clans

Elite Sardaukar
it is not a bad idea

icycalm
If we get 15 clans, we just split it into an extra Saturday

Elite Sardaukar
when is the lottery drawn? a week prior to the war?

icycalm
On Sundays
So people have a lot of time to prepare their teams
It's not like it will cost us anything
It's 5 minutes
I stream it

Elite Sardaukar
kk
was making sure you were not going to do it on event 1 of the 3 weeks
that would discourage people
turning up to being told to sit out

icycalm
Problem is, what does NW do if they want to join?

Elite Sardaukar
take a ticket and wait in line

icycalm
Pretty much
Might have to wait 3 weeks

Elite Sardaukar
they need to sort out there shit
i hope they join eventualy
they were good
and they are french

icycalm
I think we have arrived at a solution that is scalable
It can accommodate any number of clans
It's still a war
But in stages
Elite Sardaukar
what if only 2 clans show upo in week 1?

icycalm
They fight

Elite Sardaukar
they both goto the final?

icycalm
Oh
We could add a big random team

Elite Sardaukar
its not a bad thing

icycalm
Two big random teams
So that the clans would still have something to fight for

Elite Sardaukar
so they could potentially get knocked out?

icycalm
Exactly

Elite Sardaukar
the rando teams can't continue though right?

icycalm
Exactly
But at least they can have fun
Which might make them join a clan

Elite Sardaukar
I do like the idea of getting some weeks off
and i do like the idea of the clans potentially teaming up on the randoms
or even teaming up with the randoms

icycalm
I don't see why they would do the latter

Elite Sardaukar
to knock a clan out early

icycalm
If the clans team up, they have nothing to lose
Yeah true
Esp. if it's BSE

Elite Sardaukar
my thoughts exactly

icycalm
So they won't have to face them in the final
It would make the event even more chaotic I think
And more inclusive
This way, we add rando teams without breaking the leaderboard
We are guaranteed 4-clan 20-player wars every week

Elite Sardaukar
if nw show up and someone else doesnt they could take their place also (edited)

icycalm
True

Elite Sardaukar
in the first 2 weeks

icycalm
That would allow clans to jump in
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icycalm
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 22:05

icycalm
I think we have a solution then
Let's sleep on it for a day

Elite Sardaukar
just quickly
i prefer not to invite people to our discord openly yet
nicb1 is still working on some security bots for it

icycalm
I am not going to make that page yet
Maybe in a week or two

Elite Sardaukar
all g

icycalm
I will tell you before

Elite Sardaukar
as you can see i probably have the most info out of the other clans anyways

icycalm
You, me and Exodus are the most organized clans
We all have Steam groups, logos and websites

Elite Sardaukar
exodus are not really a clan

icycalm
A team?

Elite Sardaukar
barely

icycalm
Or at least they can be

Elite Sardaukar
i'm pretty sure some of them were playing under others names

icycalm
Playing where?

Elite Sardaukar
in game 1 or 2
clan wars #2 i think

icycalm
Exodus played only in game 2
And we know that Qzipco and Admiral played as Quitch and Bsport

Elite Sardaukar
Exodus are more of just a platform for hosting events

icycalm
Let's put it this way
They are an organization (edited)
BRN and CULT are also organizations
And we all have websites, logos and Steam groups
There are no other PA organizations

Elite Sardaukar
yeah not anymore
surprised bse dont get some stuff setup as they are growing quickly

icycalm
They probably will eventually

Elite Sardaukar
fun history fact brn only started to knock rlm off the pedestal

icycalm
lol

Elite Sardaukar
we hated those guys
not because we truly hated them but because they were someone to hate
anyways

icycalm
The game needed competition, and it still does
I think we have a good solution
And if the tech improves, we just increase the number of clans per week from 4 to 5
We can prolly already increase it if we had 10 clans
Which we might get soon, with the return of TNC
The other good thing, is that we could use the same system for all 3 games

Elite Sardaukar
would next weeks be the start of the new format?

icycalm
Yep
I would run the lottery midweek

Elite Sardaukar
are you telling me i only have to create a system for 4 teams?

icycalm
Yep

Elite Sardaukar
that makes my life sooo much easier

icycalm
True huh

Elite Sardaukar
2 starting planets
a gas
and 2 moons
more than enough for 4 teams
and it should not lag heavily
i was also going to try slighly smaller planets

icycalm
Be careful with that

Elite Sardaukar
lag seems to be dependant on planet size
moreso than players

icycalm
The main reason we are splitting the clans is so as to be able to use larger systems
We want to give NBT etc. some room to expand
I want at least one starting planet at 750
Always
So the little guys can expand
A couple of games ago 4 CULT comms killed 2 NBT players in 10 mins because the planet was tiny
OR
Have many starting planets
As with your Omega system

Elite Sardaukar
it kinda adds a more random element to it

icycalm
Another question popped up to me just now
If 2 clans are left
what are they fighting for?
in weeks 1 and 2

Elite Sardaukar
prestige

icycalm
I'd rather give them a point on the leaderboard
So a round 3 victory is worth 2 points, and round 1 is 1 point
It's not as clean as what we have now though

Elite Sardaukar
what if only 3 of the 4 clans show on last event

icycalm
We add a random team

Elite Sardaukar
does a rando team sub in still?
kk

icycalm
Yep
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icycalm
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 22:09

Elite Sardaukar
can team rando get points?

icycalm
Nope
If they win, no one gets points

Elite Sardaukar
the clans should lose points in that case almost

icycalm
They can brag about it
The clans will have enough incentive to gang up on the randoms, if it looks they are winning

Elite Sardaukar
yeah

icycalm
Also, the number of players per rando team should be the same as the smallest clan
I think

Elite Sardaukar
that works
it also leaves open options for future
if people are concerned about only having 2 players on a team and we get 12 teams
the smaller teams could be in one event
imo its flexible if teething issues occur

icycalm
True
We could add a random team even if all 4 teams show
If the players are still below 20
Our experience tells that 4-5 teams with 15-20 players is the best for Clan Wars at this level of server tech
And now we have the rules to pretty much guarantee such a game every week
btw, if you make a system for 4 teams, then, for that War, we don't add a fifth
if for the next War I make a random system, we can add a fifth team
So there is flexibility there too

Elite Sardaukar
if we run with 1 system every 3 weeks it would give me more time to complete something also

icycalm
How about I post this raw chatlog in my forum?
I will make an article too
But it would help people see our thinking process
That I didn't just pull this solution out of my ass
So whoever wants to see the problems we are facing in detail, will be able to
I don't think we said anything bad about anyone
Just that some clans are disorganized
I'll post the chatlog later tonight or tomorrow
And by midweek I will have set up everything

Elite Sardaukar
anyways sleep on it there might be more thoughts yet but so far it sounds good

icycalm
That will give people time to suggest something, if they want to

Elite Sardaukar
indeed

icycalm
Okay catch you later

Elite Sardaukar
cya
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 22:14

So that's where the matter stands. We have in effect agreed on the new format, and will allow 2-3 days for any interested players to read our discussion and propose modifications, or even an entire new format. As you can see, we explored alternatives quite thoroughly, and rejected all of them but the last, so if you do have a new proposal, or would prefer one of the ones we examined and rejected, be advised that we will probably reject yours too. Still, someone could conceivably devise a genius solution we didn't think of, so we will certainly read every comment that comes our way. Looking forward to those then.

And to keep everything in perspective, please realize that, in a few years' time, when server tech has caught up with the demands of the Clan Wars 2.0 format, WE WILL REVERT BACK TO IT, because it is the ideal as far as I am concerned. We are only taking this detour to allow the event to grow without turning the games into 15%-sim-speed clusterfucks, as happened yesterday.
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Oct 2017 22:19

And here are my thoughts on points/the leaderboard.

We convert the current leaderboard to the new system by giving each clan 2 points for each victory they have.

Then, when the new system starts this Saturday, each semi-final victory (i.e. Weeks 1 and 2 of each War) will be worth 1 point, and each final victor (i.e. Week 3) will be worth 2 points.
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Unread postby icycalm » 11 Nov 2017 14:46

Diskraip
About new Clan War format. I think group system is good idea. But i have some suggestion.
1) Not fully random splitting between groups. We need strong clans in each group. And after, they can meeting in final.
2) I suggest play all group games in one week, and final in second week. I think your event very intresting and many players don't want wait it 3-4 weeks.

icycalm
As for 2)....
These are big games
I cannot host 2x3-hour clan wars on a single day
Even after 3 hours, I am exhausted
Also, we only have 2 time slots that work for everyone: 15UTC and 22UTC

Diskraip
Maybe i can help with game which i don't play

icycalm
Are you going to stay up until 7AM to play Clan Wars?
If the first game starts at 1AM Moscow time...
Same with the Australians for the 15UTC time slot
We only have 2 narrow windows when everyone can play
I understand that the event is interesting, but we should put the extra energy into the League
2 League games go fast
The League lobbies take 5 minutes to make

Diskraip
I understand

icycalm
In Exodus Clan Wars, the clans played once a month
Marshall told me many times that weekly is too much
My players are burned out
That's why last week I had only myself + 2 players
The others are tired

Diskraip
Ok
Then there is only the first point

icycalm
About the first point...
Most clans are strong, except CULT
TNC, BSE, BRN, APAA
pXs
Which clan is weak besides mine?
Maybe NBT

Diskraip
Most clans not organized

icycalm
Yeah
No clans are organized except mine and yours
But I have bad players
And that's why you always win
There is no way to find a clan at your level
Because to play at that level requires leadership
And there are no other leaders
So, the worst that could happen, is that you get CULT, NBT and one strong clan in your group
Usually, you will get 2 strong clans
So you should have your fun

Diskraip
I only want make intresting games in each groups

icycalm
Okay
How do you want me to make the groups then?
Give me a formula

Diskraip
We can take the 4 most active clans ALL, CULT, BRN and somebody else. Two send in one group, the other in the second. This will increase the likelihood that each group will have someone to play with. Otherwise, there may be cases when a game in one of the groups no one will come.

icycalm
ALL?

Diskraip
BSE *
sorry

icycalm
Oh ok

Diskraip
This is probably not the best solution. I'll think about it

icycalm
I don't think there are 4 most active clans
There is BSE, BRN and CULT
Everyone else plays randomly
Keep thinking, and let me know

Diskraip
Ok

icycalm
by the way
If a clan doesn't show up, I will replace it with a random team
We talked about that with Elite
So we will always have 4 teams

Diskraip
Yes, I read

icycalm
And if the total of players is below 20, I will add a 5th random team

Diskraip
But 4 random team is not good

icycalm
It will not be 4 random team
It might be 3 clans and 1 or 2 random teams
Also, clans are growing
pXs got 3 new members in the last 48 hours
So eventually, all clans will show up always (edited)

Diskraip
What happens if no one clans join to game? It this problem which i trying solve.

icycalm
You mean, we invite 4 clans, and no clans show up?

Diskraip
Yes

icycalm
It will never happen

Diskraip
Why?

icycalm
Worst case scenario is 1 or 2 clans

Diskraip
If BSE, BRN, CULT will in one group, it is possble

icycalm
Okay, then, for that Saturday, no Clan War
It's not the end of the world
But I don't think it will happen
Worst case scenario is 1 clan shows up, and I add 3 random teams
If the clan wants to win the point, it has to beat all 3

Diskraip
Ok, then it's no problem

icycalm
1 clan vs. 3 randoms is still a fun scenario
It's different

Diskraip
Sorry for wasting your time.

icycalm
The goal of this format is to be able to GUARANTEE 20-player, 4/5-team games every week
No it's fine
I am just saying, that now I will be able to CONTROL the size of the game
We can have perfect numbers every week
I cannot guarantee the QUALITY of the teams and players
But I can almost-guarantee the numbers

Diskraip
Yes, i understand

icycalm
And you will ALWAYS have a challenge, because you can attack all 3 other teams
Of course, they may do stupid things and let you win easy
But eventually, they will learn to team up against you
You just have to give everyone time to learn
I think we'll be okay
We must take a step back to take two steps forward
But I think we have a good plan
And if the plan doesn't work...
We make a new plan

Diskraip
Yes, I agree
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Unread postby icycalm » 13 Nov 2017 01:30

icycalm
@Loren8008 After some thought, I have decided to take back the point I gave you guys. I am really sorry to do this because I was very happy your team got a point, but this is what's best for the event. Because after BRN got killed, there was nothing for you guys to fight for: you had already secured the point and your place in the finals no matter what happened against the red team. Whereas with this new rule, you still have the point to fight for. (edited)
So if a random team wins a war, no one gets points. (edited)
You still gained your place in the finals on Dec 2

Diskraip
I didn't see all game so I can't understand why they don't get point. It because they killed BRN but did not continued fight against randoms?

icycalm
I think the randoms killed everyone
lol
In the end, it was NBT vs randoms
NBT fought well... but they lost
(of course the "randoms" were not really random, but really good players) (edited)
In the last 15 minutes, when it was NBT vs. randoms, there was no reason for NBT to fight, since they already got the point and the place in the finals. Now with this new rule, there is a reason to fight.

Diskraip
But if randoms won, BRN don't go to final? (edited)
Only NBT?

icycalm
If we did this, it would be bad for the event, because the finals would be only 3 clans
I make the rules to maximize the fun

Diskraip
ok, thanks for explain

icycalm
No worries

Diskraip
Just offensively for the NBT. They outlived the BRN, but both the NBT and the BRN go to the finals and the NBT, like the BRN, did not receive points. (edited)

icycalm
I don't think it's offensive only for them. Because it will happen again. So, in the long run, it will be offensive to everyone. And if it's offensive to everyone, it's offensive to no one.
The point is: do you want to see 20-minute fights when there is no reason to fight?

Diskraip
No

icycalm
Maybe there is a better way
We give 2 points to number one clan, and 1 point to number two clan
This way, NBT gets only 1 point, instead of the 2 they would have got if they had beaten the randoms (edited)

Diskraip
Yes, I think it good way. But what about points in final?

icycalm
I think, if we do this, we keep the same points for finals
So someone who wins both their matches, gets 4 points per clan war
And I also change the leaderboard, giving 4 points for every previous victory, before the new format

Diskraip
I like it

icycalm
Let's do this
It solves everything

Diskraip
Yes

icycalm
Also, if the winning clan kills the last 2 clans at the same time (with a planet smash, for example), only 1 clan moves to the final, and it gets ALL 3 points (edited)
I think that would be awesome
So it would be possible for a clan to get 6 points per war

Diskraip
What about happens when two random teams win? If you want more fun in final i suggest send third place with zero points to final.

icycalm
Yeah you are right
But what if clans 2 and 3 die at the same time?
Which one do you send?

Diskraip
Now i see only one decision. As you said:" if the winning clan kills the last 2 clans at the same time (with a planet smash, for example), only 1 clan moves to the final, and it gets ALL 3 points". But if it possible we need find way to send two clans in this situation.

icycalm
I think that there is no way to find an extra clan to send
Also, this will be a rare situation
Very rare

Diskraip
Yep

icycalm
So let's reward the winning clan with a smaller final, in which they will have greater chances of winning again

Diskraip
Yes

icycalm
I updated the leaderboard

Diskraip
good
I'm glad that we came to this decision

icycalm
It makes every match more interesting
Lots of opportunities for teams to get points now

Diskraip
Yes. And more reasons to make allinces

icycalm
True

Diskraip
Because now second place have small win too

icycalm
recoil was talking about that
So now you can have alliances for the entire game, almost
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