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The "Indie" Circlejerk's Botched Attempts at Game Design

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Unread postby icycalm » 23 Nov 2010 12:58

zinger's review is ready, and so is my Spelunky one, but I am going surfing again today (awesome weather), so they are both going to have to wait.

I was thinking of interjecting between the indie reviews some REAL "videogame art" reviews to make the point even more obvious: Civilization and GTAIII, for example, which I've been hyping in so many articles and reviews. (They are my number 1 and number 2 favorite games of all time, respectively.) The only thing is that these reviews are going to be pretty extensive and detailed, so each of them would probably take several days to do -- days which I could put into reviewing more "indie" trash to make this list more comprehensive...

We'll see, I guess.
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Unread postby icycalm » 23 Nov 2010 13:00

Oh, and judging by zinger's review of the original, we won't be needing to review Knytt Stories.
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Unread postby PleaseContinue » 23 Nov 2010 13:30

http://www.remar.se/daniel/iji.php


On the site I noticed a link to his "Doom II levels".

http://www.remar.se/daniel/doom.php

I've spent all last year playing DOOM WADs, the best and the worst, and these look atrocious.

Image

Pac-man in Doom! Run down the corridors collecting 100 rockets, while the CyberDemons go after you. Then hit the switch in the centre of the arena. If you have 100% items, you win!


If this is the type of level design he prides himself on, my expectations of a full game by him are very, very low.
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Unread postby zinger » 23 Nov 2010 18:52

I tried 10 minutes of Knytt Stories (the scenario that it comes bundled with), which is much better (much more of a game, and looks slightly better) than Knytt. It's still very basic though and the stage design is terrible. I'd say it's also a one-star game, two at the absolute most.
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Unread postby icycalm » 23 Nov 2010 23:16

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Unread postby zinger » 23 Nov 2010 23:20

Yeah, you're right. Amazing though, it does everything so much better than Knytt and is still such a wreck of a game.
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Nov 2010 13:35

Thinking of adding "Charles Barkley: Shut Up and Jam Gaiden" to the list. It's supposed to be a JRPG?!? Anyone played it?
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Unread postby Bread » 24 Nov 2010 14:54

I've played some of it. It's a crappy parody of 16 bit JRPGs. It's very linear and plot-heavy, driven by its purposely ridiculous story. It has simple turn-based combat with action elements, like the Mario JRPGs.
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Unread postby icycalm » 25 Nov 2010 23:53

Someone had posted something here and subsequently deleted it. I am 99% sure it was PleaseContinue, so I banned him. If I've made a mistake let me know and I will correct it. But in any case someone has to get banned for this.
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Unread postby Bread » 26 Nov 2010 02:21

It was PleaseContinue, he wrote a short comment on Barkley: Shut Up and Jam Gaiden. He said that it was a joke game, and that its graphics were an inconsistent mess of content ripped from other games. There was nothing obviously wrong about what he wrote.
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Unread postby icycalm » 28 Nov 2010 21:50

Added Flow.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Nov 2010 18:14

http://insomnia.ac/reviews/pc/spelunky/page_01.php
http://insomnia.ac/reviews/pc/spelunky/page_02.php

Six down, ten to go. Josh is taking care of Iji, and perhaps also Flow. Next up from me is Meat Boy... bleh.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Nov 2010 19:32

I just noticed that, between them, the four indie games at the top of the frontpage right now get six stars. Way to go fagots!
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Unread postby icycalm » 01 Dec 2010 17:14

I just realized that Alien Hominid was originally released, not on PS2 or GC, as I had thought, but on the web as a Flash game (much like Meat Boy, and on the same site):

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/59593

So this is the version I'll be reviewing. And perhaps later also the PS2/GC version, as with the 360 versions of Meat Boy and Spelunky. Need to do a thorough job here and make the case as airtight as possible if it is to have any considerable effect...

Which also brings us back to Knytt Stories and the need for a full of review of that too. I say this because I've noticed that no one really mentions the original any more — everyone praises the second game, so we need to debunk that too. It's not a priority, though, so I can wait on that for as long as it takes zinger to write the follow-up, if he feels like doing it.
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Unread postby icycalm » 01 Dec 2010 17:18

Note also that I am putting this project on the forefront and will be devoting much more time to it than originally planned. Put simply, nothing much else will happen on the frontpage until all these games have been reviewed, even if that takes weeks or months.
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Unread postby icycalm » 02 Dec 2010 00:38

I like this guy's attitude:

http://cactusquid.blogspot.com/

cactus wrote:I'm a game developer living in Gothenburg, Sweden. I've been making small freeware games since 2004. My aim is to create interesting things, whether it be through visuals or gameplay mechanics. A lot of the games on my site are just small experiments dressed up as games. I'm glad that people still seem to enjoy them.


No pretensions about his games being more "artistic" than the games of real designers, no pretensions about messages or meanings, no pretensions even of making good or refined games. "Small experiments dressed up as games." There you go. Is it that hard to be honest?
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Unread postby icycalm » 02 Dec 2010 15:20

Also, someone just bumped the World of Goo thread, and reminded me of something I had quoted in there. Worth requoting here, where it's even more relevant:

KaioShin wrote:Psychlonic: Truly great games are totally timeless and will be enjoyed in years to come. If a new generation of gamers doesn't want to try them it's out of ignorance, not because the games don't hold up against the then-modern games. The only issue with the gaming community is just that over half of all released games are claimed to be "good" or "very cool", when in reality only one out of 200 games or something is truly great and all the rest is just mediocre timefiller. People give many games way too much credit since there is no actual criticism going on in the gaming landscape. If a game is mildly entertaining to a genre audience it'll be recommended over and over. Yes, these games will completely vanish within a few years of time and no one will ever talk about them again. But there ARE true masterpieces that have staying power beyond the usual aging effects. Two games that immediately come to my mind here are Jagged Alliance 2 and Starcraft. Just don't search for them through Game of the Year awards or similarly retarded industry hype. You won't find them through reviews either, since current gaming journalism completely lost track of what games are about. You'll have to find these games on your own by playing them and being amazed by them.

With indie games I think it's quite on the contrary. Those overhyped indie games (artsy or not) will be forgotten even faster than the commercial successes of their times. I don't buy all that "Indie games are so special!" crap. They all rely on gimmicks, and gimmicks quickly get old. Why do you think do they rarely last for more than 5 hours? Why do those oh so great new gameplay concepts don't spawn tons of sequels and succesful copy cats? Their underlying game system ideas just don't offer more meat than 3-5 hours for one game. World of Goo was a really nice and refreshing experience, but 3 days after I finished it I had already forgotten all about it.


http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.p ... #msg132229

Notice also that the post was made on a forum where they actively seek out and play old games. This is a guy who has probably been exposed to half the Mega Drive's and SFC's back catalogues, in contrast to the indie bums, most of whom are barely even aware of something like Super Mario Bros., and even then probably through hype rather than having actually played it.
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Unread postby icycalm » 02 Dec 2010 15:35

I just made a visit to this site's frontpage on a whim, and this is literally the first thing I came upon (ignore the utter imbecility of the first sentence):

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.p ... 11826.html

RHDNBot wrote:What is Grandia ReDux?

Grandia ReDux is a mod which vastly improves Grandia’s gameplay by refining certain gameplay elements within the game. Here is a list of things that the mod changes in the game:

1. Difficulty level

-Enemies have all been made stronger so that combat is more satisfying or challenging, especially in the main story.

-The abusive recovery option has been removed from a majority of savepoints.


This is what the genuine fans are doing — not only going back to older games, but spending weeks or months modding them TO MAKE THEM EVEN HARDER. Making enemies stronger and REMOVING recovery options. The exact opposite direction in which the indie bums are going.
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Unread postby icycalm » 02 Dec 2010 16:57

"Dependent" gaming crew:

Image


vs.


"Independent" gaming crew:

Image


And the results:


"Dependent" game:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/odmiO7YsAXA?fs=1&amp;hl=es_ES" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed>


vs.


"Independent" game:

Image
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Unread postby zinger » 02 Dec 2010 17:29

icycalm wrote:Which also brings us back to Knytt Stories and the need for a full of review of that too. I say this because I've noticed that no one really mentions the original any more — everyone praises the second game, so we need to debunk that too. It's not a priority, though, so I can wait on that for as long as it takes zinger to write the follow-up, if he feels like doing it.

I played (and beat) it yesterday on the train. I'm reviewing something better right now to get my spirits back up, but after that I'll gladly write something on Knytt Stories too.
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Unread postby icycalm » 04 Dec 2010 16:21

zinger wrote:to get my spirits back up


I use Fuuin no Tsurugi [ > ] for that purpose. After I am done with an indie abortion I complete one more chapter and then I can take on the next one.

So how about Machinarium? Any opinions on whether or not it should be added to the list? It doesn't seem to have actually broken OUT OF the circlejerk, at least not yet, but it is certainly heard a lot WITHIN the circlejerk.
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Unread postby zinger » 04 Dec 2010 16:58

Cool, I just started exploring the Fire Emblem series myself.

I'm not sure about Machinarium, I only played through a few screens before I lost interest. From what I saw it seems like a pretty good game, but a mere triviality compared to stuff like Day of the Tentacle or Monkey Island 2. If I remember correctly, the puzzles I encountered were organized in a fixed succession, and this type of linearity would of course be much less inspiring than Lucas Arts' way of doing it (but most of all I think I missed the compelling quality of Lucas Arts' characters, plots and themes, which are always apparent from the first screen in their games). But I've barely scratched the surface of Machinarium, so I can't tell you if it picks up or not later on. In any case I doubt it belongs to the "circlejerk", but personally I'd rather continue playing The Dig for now, which I haven't beaten yet.
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Unread postby Worm » 12 Dec 2010 08:34

I finished Machinarium a couple days ago. After you get past four or five single-screen puzzles, the game opens up a bit and you get to wander around a larger area, so there is some puzzle breadth later on.

From what I gather, most of the praise for this game focuses on the backgrounds, music, animation, overall atmosphere, etc. with not much talk about the puzzles (which are mostly simple and easy). If anyone does talk about the puzzles, it's to compliment the in-game hint system or say that being simple and easy is a good thing. But at least I'm not reading anything about messages or "the experience" or whatever.

All of this is on par for how I see the entire adventure game genre treated these days. Machinarium would be a nice excuse to set people straight on the genre, but I don't think it's notable otherwise.
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Unread postby icycalm » 12 Dec 2010 17:28

It sounds like you got the game dialled, and you've already finished it, so if you want to save me the effort and write the review feel free to do it. You've already touched the main points, so all you have to do is expand a little bit and you are done.
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Unread postby icycalm » 12 Dec 2010 17:39

Also, let me clear something up. The point of this series of reviews is to show, on a case by case basis, that the games that hide behind the "indie" label are degenerate games. Whether their designers employ the "message" or the "experience" or the "simple but deep" excuse, or any other absurd excuses their little brains manufacture, is beside the point. If people are calling a game "indie", and if this game has achieved any measure of success, it is qualified to be included in this series of reviews.
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