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The Popularity vs. Quality Equation

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The Popularity vs. Quality Equation

Unread postby icycalm » 26 Aug 2020 02:24

My essay in four parts on the relationship between popularity vs. quality in videogames, and art in general, is concluded.

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Part I: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36404021

Part II: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36408455

Part III: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39922246

Part IV: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40845394
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icycalm
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Dec 2020 06:44

They got hold of my bell curve of videogame genres on /v/, and a thread exploded: https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/

Image

It's a fun read. A few guys are getting it. Most aren't. I'm maybe a fourth of the way down, and this is what I got from the ones who are getting it. Maybe I'll post more later.


https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536481928

Anonymous wrote:this is some seriously top tier bait friend
i look forward to seeing this image constantly for the next month or so



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536484879

Anonymous wrote:>>536483642
The reason the mainstream doesn't play fighting games is not that they're too complex. They see it for what it is: 2 characters poking at each other on a screen until one of them wins. It's simplistic. You compare that to say, Assassin's Creed, a huge cinematic open world adventure, and it's an easy choice. That's why Mortal Kombat is the most popular fighting game, it's the only one with a decent story mode.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536485217

Anonymous wrote:>>536481742
>survival building
>complex
the problem with games like those is that you need a lot of friends to play together all the time or you will get destroyed by a bigger group



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536485346

Anonymous wrote:>anons see they play low IQ shit
>i-it's bait!!!
every time



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536486306

Anonymous wrote:>>536485909
Popularity is literally the y axis. The problem is that those retards didn't realize the genre pictures are labels for the graph, not the actual placements in the graph.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536488821

Anonymous wrote:>>536482837
PvE survival building games are boring and casual
PvP survival building games are absolutely not casual, these are one of the hardest and most punishing/rewarding games, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't really played games like rust
if you think that for example rust doesn't have any deep mechanics you've never actually played this game
>>536482762
>Trash like Rust and Arch are just streamer bait and both are barely playable
Never played ARK, maybe it's buggy, but I can tell you that Rust isn't buggy since like 2016
If you think that Rust is barely playable, you're probably a n00b, git gud



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536489270

Anonymous wrote:>>536488672
>>536488746
Most people aren't avoiding those genres because they're complex or challenging, but because they're boring, because they're actually very simple in concept and not particularly immersive compared to most other genres as a result. Like others have said in the thread, these genres are just "one guy punching another guy" or "one ship moving around and shooting things higher up on the screen" and so on.



This next guy made the graph a bit more understandable for retards:

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536489506

Anonymous wrote:Image

>>536489018
So many retards ITT incapable of reading a simple graph.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536489708

Anonymous wrote:>>536489625
>>planescape less complex than halo
It is, now cope.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536490752

Anonymous wrote:>>536483347
I have a few bullet hells in my collection, I'm hot hardcore or anything. I enjoy trying to 1cc them. Got into them on 360. Friends always tell me they can't see whats fun about being a dot avoiding other dots. So maybe "too simple" is right.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536490920

Anonymous wrote:>>536488560
Minecraft with mods taps into some vast alternative universe of autism, that shit can get to complex for 200IQ geniuses



This next guy wins the prize. He's replying to someone who tried to smear me.

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536491202

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:>all skill based genres on the left
>skilless games on the right
Icycalm is what happens when you refuse to get good at games and instead write essays nobody will ever read about how its the games fault.


>skill based
i.e. reflex based. As the chart goes further right, the genres become more cerebral.

Image



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536491313

Anonymous wrote:>>536490981
>skilless games on the right
>RTS
>Turn Based Strat
>First Person 4X
>skilless
Just because your monkey brain gets off on mashing buttons doesn't mean that thinking isn't a skill lol.
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Dec 2020 07:11

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536491567

Anonymous wrote:>>536491314
The power of intellect required to play a fighting game or a shmup pales in comparison to what is needed to play a proper RTS or something like Rust at a higher level. The former genres are almost entirely about reflexes in comparison.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536491939

Anonymous wrote:>>536491759
t. never in his life attempted to play in clan wars in a serious RTS or Rust



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536492893

Anonymous wrote:Yes anons, the competitive strategy game with a majority white-asian player base is as difficult as the fighting games and the FPS.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536493040

Anonymous wrote:>>536481742
based icycalm continuing to make shmupfags eternally buttblasted for daring to think that playing for score SUCKS and is a waste of TIME



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536493201

Anonymous wrote:>>536493013
Try playing it at a serious level i.e. running a large group at server wipe. It's nothing like "run of the mill open world fps multiplayer."



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536493265

Anonymous wrote:>>536493013
>Just seems like
lol, you've never played it? You wouldn't even be able to make a house in the most populated servers.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536493596

Anonymous wrote:Image



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536493603

Anonymous wrote:>>536493495
Yeah you only play the hardcore ones where the only stakes are a few minutes lmao



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536494352

Anonymous wrote:>>536493987
>a dude punching another dude on a 2D plane to win a <5 min match is complex
is pic rel you?



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536495119

Anonymous wrote:Fighting games are simple to understand, it's the execution that filters people



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536495225

Anonymous wrote:why can't /v/ read graphs



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536496114

Anonymous wrote:How sheltered are you people if you think fighting games are at all popular?



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536496321

Anonymous wrote:Every time icycalm gets brought up /v/ pretty much turns into a manifestation of Sir's /fit/ new years comic as they try to pick apart his theories.

Image



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536496553

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where my fellow RTSchads at?


Waiting for mikey to die


lols

It's gotta be one of you guys.
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Dec 2020 07:40

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536498112

Anonymous wrote:>>536497609
All genres are equal

t. idle clicker player



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536498931

Anonymous wrote:>>536498603
Let's put it this way. What if there is a genre that is two other genres added together? Like for example a genre that is tactics + city building.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536500281

Anonymous wrote:>>536481742
This is the hardest bait I've ever seen and it's got so many layers. Whoever made this is either a complete retard or a bait god. I am going to assume complete retard.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536500306

Anonymous wrote:>>536481742
Good graph, if only because it makes fighingfags seethe.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536500327

Anonymous wrote:>>536500072
>because they can't play it properly
Any retard can play a fighting game properly anon.



This guy is replying to someone who says most people can't play fighting games by linking a video of a dog throwing a fireball. That is literally how complex fighting games are. Good job.

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536500615




https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536500941

Anonymous wrote:>>536500725
>you can add as many extra arbitrary rules to even the most simple genre of game
Without turning it into a greater genre? I doubt it.



This guy should be able to grasp the tree of gaming:

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536501016

Anonymous wrote:>>536500517
I didn't see clicker games as a specific genre but a subcategory of game like how most genres can incorporate an element like battle royale or permadeath and still be considered the primary one rather than that defining factor translating say, Tetris 99 from being a puzzle game or Mario 35 from being a platformer.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536501115

Anonymous wrote:>>536500615
does pulling the trigger on my gun qualify as "playing a shooting game properly"



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536501756

Anonymous wrote:>>536500851
reflexes and memorization go hand in hand. the amount of moment-to-moment improvisation and the degree of improvisational complexity required in a fighting game is comparatively less compared to what is required in an rts game.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536502464

Anonymous wrote:Image



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536502510

Anonymous wrote:>>536501202
And they're right. Fighting games are just characters hitting each other on a screen, repeat ad infinitum. You can learn all the deep complex mechanics and what do get out of it? You're now better at hitting the same characters on the same screen as before.

Compare that to say Nier Automata where you hit other characters, then explore a world, learn some story, hit more characters, explore new areas, buy and equip upgrades, talk to characters, do more fighting, etc. That's a much deeper and more complex experience.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536502631

Anonymous wrote:>>536502143
How is rust casual when you can lose several days worth of effort in seconds?



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536502660

Anonymous wrote:>>536481742
>fighting game too simple
>FPS too complex
:)



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536502742

Anonymous wrote:>>536502510
Casuals aren't human.
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Dec 2020 08:14

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536502878

Anonymous wrote:>>536502464
DANGEROUSLY BASED!!!



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536503298

Anonymous wrote:>>536499650
they're pretty simple, not sure what you're trying to imply. Maybe try playing games of the genres to the right to see actually complex video games. Also
>>most popular
nobody ever said that. In fact, that image implies the opposite.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536503747

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How is "Quality" measured?


mechanical complexity + degree of immersion possible


Close but not quite. Quality is measured by me. That's the ultimate measure of quality: the opinion of the highest lifeform around to engage with the work and evaluate it. Whatever pleases me the most is the highest quality (and that tends to be the most mechanically and aesthetically complex works). No other definition makes sense, because if the opinion of anyone counted, then that would also be true of dogs.


https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536503926

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:>"If you are not interested in videogames in the 21st century you are a peasant, plain and simple -- just as those who were not interested in, say, the theatre in the 18th or 19th centuries were peasants, and hence utterly incapable of having any meaningful relationship with people of class -- and no amount of philosophy can change this." -- Icycalm


Based



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536504226

Anonymous wrote:>>536502464
based as hell



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536504940

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:>>536504026
>platformers, sports and adventure games are unpopular
>CRPGs are popular
this is even more retarded holy shit


among gamers that is all correct. no one cares about the normalest of normalfags who play football manager for 20,000 hours and have never even heard of genres like CRPG or 4X before. adventure i.e. point-and-click games are pretty damn niche and platformers are mostly played by kids.


This is the answer to those saying sports games are super-popular. They aren't among gamers. They are only popular among people who don't play games. And people who don't play games do not belong in the graph about games.


https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536505034

Anonymous wrote:>>536504660
>Why is /v/ so utterly retarded
Because it's allowed to be. Imagine if the punishment to making a stupid post was a sledgehammer to the face, suddenly everybody will be thinking quite a lot before posting.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536505209

Anonymous wrote:>>536504968
>a 2D game where you fight one opponent at a time is the height of either mechanical complexity or degree of immersion possible
>implying anyone here hasn't played a fighting game before when there's hundreds of them



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536505248

Anonymous wrote:>>536505050
You don't think that the fact that something is so complex that there even CAN be bad teachers is not a sign that it's more complex than something that is so simple anybody can teach it?



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536505772

Anonymous wrote:>>536501594
Eh, the thread is nearing bump limit and we'll probably see at least a dozen more of these in the upcoming weeks. It's perfectly good bait.



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536506432

Anonymous wrote:>>536505738
>Correct.
so try to argue the point. what about them is mechanically complex or immersive compared to the first person 4X game, where there is way more involved and way more to consider, it's played against hundreds if not thousands of other players simultaneously, and it's played in full 3D in first person and with more realistic physics models?



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536506548

Anonymous wrote:>>536505738
holy fuck play some first person 4x games and then come back



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536506861

Anonymous wrote:>>536505989
>played ark and rust, they are minecraft tier.
sounds like you played solo and got nowhere



And the best came right at the end.

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536511997

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:>>536508164
>Didn't icycalm used to suck shmup dick?
no


he definitely did


he was defending mechanical complexity, that's all


Why is it in the simple category then?


it's not just about mechanical complexity, it's also about immersion, hence why the axis is labeled quality
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Dec 2020 08:33

There's a second thread: https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/537225715/

Some more highlights.


https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/537225715/#537231516

Anonymous wrote:>>537225715
this is just saying that the more complex something is, the better it is, but the less popular it is

Yet real life is the most complex game, sucks, yet everyone plays it

Refute that, niga


I already did.

Why the Highest Artform Attracts the Lowest Lifeforms
https://www.patreon.com/posts/27928081


https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/537225715/#537232718

Anonymous wrote:>>537225715
Updated the graph. Try to refute it now.

Image



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/537225715/#537233167

Anonymous wrote:>>537225715
>rpgs more popular than fps, third person movies and action-adventure games
I do not know which timeline are you from, but I want to go there.


Yeah, this is the toughest data point to understand. I'll explain it at length towards the end of Role-playing Culture.


https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/537225715/#537234762

Anonymous wrote:>>537234325
Simple and complex are relative.

The graph is made relative to mid-core gamer.

If the graph were made relative to casuals open worlds would probably be 'too complex' and angry birds would be in the middle



https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/537225715/#537235381

Anonymous wrote:>nu/v/ doesn't know icycalm

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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Dec 2020 23:23

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/536481742/#536481928

Anonymous wrote:this is some seriously top tier bait friend
i look forward to seeing this image constantly for the next month or so


You can see that the subhumans don't understand how insight works. Because all the previous "top tier bait" memes he's seen last for a month tops, he thinks this will be the same. He can't see that people will still be interested in the subject matter ten years from now, and he can't see that ten years from now this image will still be at the cutting edge of theory and discussion, hence it will still be getting linked ten years from now, and even 50 years and 100, if mankind lasts that long.

Subhumans, eh.
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Unread postby icycalm » 15 May 2021 00:31

New thread: https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/554967628/

Did not find a single post worth quoting. You might as well save your time and skip it, unless you want to be exposed to how subhuman subhumans have been getting.
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Unread postby icycalm » 16 May 2021 15:23

The End of Videogame (and Art) Theory
https://www.patreon.com/posts/51317891

icycalm wrote:I am making this post publicly viewable so that poor and/or resentful and/or ungrateful people can also have a chance at enlightenment, if they possess the IQ and T required. They probably don't, but you never know. There are always some outliers among the millions of the unwashed. Let's give those outliers a chance too.
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Unread postby icycalm » 16 May 2021 22:51

New thread: https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/555817319/

This is my competition:

Image

This is what we're dealing with. (Btw, some of these "genres" aren't even genres: they are just themes.)

Understand: this graph is precisely how ALL gamers have the genres mapped out in their heads, EVEN MY READERS, before I explained to them the real graph.

This utterly random, nonsensical brain soup is how ALL homo sapiens have reality mapped out in their brains.

That's why we need the Overman.
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