Planetary Annihilation

Cosmic War

Strategy

Moderator: JC Denton

Unread postby icycalm » 20 Oct 2014 16:52

So here's the strategy I got for the next battle on Elysium. I am assuming the team will be exactly the same for the sake of convenience in writing up this post: if it isn't, the replacement(s) will just have to take up whichever post(s) fit closer to their abilities.

There are three spawn locations: Masa and I land in the middle, and Qpo and recoil in the outer ones.

All the good stuff (economy + production) happen in the middle by me, while Masa does the scouting and identifies the nearest victim, while gathering his forces for the push.

The only thing that Qpo and recoil are concerned with throughout the entire game is map control and metal extraction. When they land, they make 2 bot factories: one churning out infinite fabbers, the other infinite bots. A little later, they send a group of fabbers to make another such base (of 2 bot factories churning out the exact same type of units as the previous mini-base) a little further off, and then another and then another. Their task is to fill up as much of the map as they can with these tiny little bases at regular intervals, even while the fighting is raging between Masa and the opponents all over the map.

Some notes:

1. It may be a good idea for your very first mini-base to have both factories churning out fabbers for a while, and only later to switch one of them to bots. Or, you could make 3 factories in your first mini-base, with 2 of them making fabbers, and then all subsequent bases with 2 factories. Need to experiment with that.

2. Fabbers should be sent out ONE BY ONE to the nearest metal point, and radius selecting THE ENTIRE PLANET. That's how you should always proceed. I don't care if your mini-base is right next to an enemy base -- we can't have you micromanaging any fabbers. It's fire-and-forget -- once a fabber is out of the factory, he's on a quest to fill up the entire planet with mexes until he's dead. The 1300 planet is gigantic, and there's no other way to maximize map control with 2 players than this.

3. Don't worry when you start losing bases, and don't ask for reinforcements. Just jump to the nearest base you have and keep pumping out factories and expanding your map control in areas in which there's no enemy presence. And there will always be areas like that in such a huge planet. In all of our games on Elysium there are always vast stretches of land that no one has even been to. Moreover, once Masa starts cleaning up a base, you want to jump behind him and grab all the now-empty metal spots. So soon enough you will be jumping all over the map.

4. If you follow this plan you'll end up with a lot of single factories pumping doxes all over the map. What are you supposed to do with them? Merely leaving them in front of the factory will help retain the map that you have grabbed, but maybe you could use them even more productively by putting them on patrol (I mean putting the FACTORY on patrol, so that you won't have to micromanage any doxes) in a largish circle around each individual base? This would help clear out those pesky single doxes that the clans seem to love spamming all over the place.

5. I don't know what you are supposed to do with your commanders. They should set up the first 2 (or 3, if you go that route) factories, but then they are too slow to walk much further and establish another mini base, so maybe you should put up a teleporter and take them back to the main base to give them to me. I could definitely use their build power in putting up a lot of energy. Those teleporters will also be useful to Masa if he needs to jump around the map quickly, depending on where the enemy bases are. To that end, you should also put up a radar now and then all over the map. So starting with your first base you need to make 2 or 3 bot factories, then a teleporter to send back the commander, then a radar with a fabber.

Our main problem is the metal. That's the number one reason we lose. We make about half the metal that the clans make. And that's a huge disparity that will always cost us the game if the battle lasts beyond 10 minutes. The number 2 problem is commander snipes with bombers. So we need to work on those two. I think the above is the best we can do as far as metal goes, and as for the snipes... bigger airforce and T2 flak cannons should do the job. I'll handle that in the main base.

Yesterday we would have won 2 games against randoms w/clan members in them if they hadn't sniped our commanders in both games...

If you have any suggestions, let's hear them. Also, don't try this strategy unless you have a full team of our best players (me, Masa, recoil, Qpo, infernovia, chevvy, and jeffrobot so far as I can tell), because if you try it with beginners you'll be disappointed with the result and perhaps end up blaming the strategy instead of the beginners. If you have beginners in your team, try Promethean's system in which we'll do a 2v2 and two 1v1s, so the beginners will not be as overwhelmed as with the huge game (and put the beginners in the 2v2 team of course, if you have only one of them. If you have two of them just try an easier system to get them more familiar with the game. We don't want people getting too disappointed and abandoning the game).
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby recoil » 20 Oct 2014 20:00

Sounds like a good plan, my only suggestion would be to add one vehicle factory to the mini-bases since they are more effective at defending and maybe an air turret or two. If we don't end up getting wiped out at the start, Masa will end up with several tank platoons to control all over the planet.
User avatar
recoil
 
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 22:35
Location: California, USA

Unread postby icycalm » 20 Oct 2014 20:51

So two bot factories, a radar, a vehicle factory, and two air turrets in every single mini-base, in that order.

Plus a third bot factory and a teleporter in the original mini-base.

The only question is how far apart to space the mini-bases. Considerably far, I would think, since they represent a considerable expenditure of metal.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 22 Oct 2014 00:50

Played a 4v4 on the 1300 version of Elysium with Qpo, jeff and chevvy, against four randoms, one of whom was |⊰iller|⊰iwiJuic, currently ranked number 10 on the 1v1 ladder, and completely stomped them with this strategy in an hours-long game (they gave up in the end and suicided their commanders). They did not manage to land a single successful offensive against us, and they landed two nukes on us while we landed a couple dozen. We had ground, air and orbital superiority pretty much the entire game, and the only reason the game dragged out so long was because sweeping that huge planet for all their units and bases took ages.

We still made a number of implementation errors, so there's tons of room to improve. The army was directed by Qpo for most of the game, and he's only played the general a couple of times so far (though later in the game we all pitched in to move around the army on various fronts).

This strategy is very promising.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 22 Oct 2014 04:45

All in all, I played three games today on Elysium using this strategy, two 4v4s and one 5v5, and all of them were complete stomps. At no point did the enemies have any serious chance, I think. We basically have a month to nail this strategy to the extent that no one on the MP lobby should be able to defeat us. Then we might have a chance against Promethean.

As for their system... We need to work on that in parallel. The focus, however, will remain our system, because that's where we have the greatest chance of scoring a win.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 22 Oct 2014 04:51

Also, recoil, can you see if you can get out custom server running, so we can check the 1300 planet on it? Exodus has a custom server now, so the game may run better on that than on Uber's servers (which are hosting 7 more games at the same time).

Otherwise we'll need to decrease the planet's size. But we don't have much time left, so see what you can do about it asap.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby recoil » 22 Oct 2014 08:17

I managed to get the server running. I'll be doing a test run of the planet tomorrow at 1AM UTC. Also, I'll be online 20 minutes before to set up the server.
User avatar
recoil
 
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 22:35
Location: California, USA

Unread postby icycalm » 22 Oct 2014 16:11

You also terminated it afterwards, right?

Also, are the instructions easy enough for me to follow? If not, could you edit them to make them comprehensible to someone like me who doesn't know the first thing about these things?

I wanna try and get it running tonight so I can test it too. But I'll probably also be around when you plan to be online.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 22 Oct 2014 16:22

By the way the tests should be done on tournament conditions. I.e. 4v4, not 4v4v4 or something. And you can also add three spectator slots, just in case anyone wants to watch. Don't wait for them to fill up, but don't kick anyone if they want to watch. No idea if spectators influence server performance at all.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 22 Oct 2014 16:25

Actually, forget about my test. I'll just make sure to come online when you do, and we'll need two more people to be there. If we get more, the extra people can spectate, or play a 2v2 as practice for the Promethean system.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 22 Oct 2014 16:40

When recoil says "tomorrow" he sort of means "today", by the way. Don't want anyone to get confused by this and not show up, because we really need two more people. The deadline for submitting the system is on the 26th...
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby recoil » 22 Oct 2014 18:56

icycalm wrote:You also terminated it afterwards, right?

Also, are the instructions easy enough for me to follow? If not, could you edit them to make them comprehensible to someone like me who doesn't know the first thing about these things?


Yeah, it's been terminated, send the bill to me if anything screwed up.

It could use a touch up, I got a little confused by some of the wordings. I'll send you an updated version.
User avatar
recoil
 
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 22:35
Location: California, USA

Unread postby icycalm » 22 Oct 2014 21:41

Well, turns out I probably won't be able to make it tonight because I am really tired. Qpo won't be around either. Masa might be, and maybe infernovia? I hope you get a full team to check it, if not, send me the edited guide, and I'll do the test tomorrow afternoon when there are usually a lot of guys around.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 23 Oct 2014 00:12

chevvy, some feedback on that last game:

cynischizm wrote:You guys seriously threw that last game my friend. I was really confused when you called the gg, you had vastly superior numbers (pastats said you had over 1k dox which could have crushed all our bases with ease). A Single push with the forces you had on terra would have wiped us off the map and leaving you with complete control of two launchable planets vs a metal planet I was struggling to hold (nice 1v1 on that planet btw, who was it controlling that base at the start?)

I look forward to playing against you guys again. I'd also like to play alongside you guys at some point if you'd be up for it.


I wrote:You don't seem to have a strong grasp of the wider strategic aspect.

We had no resources to invade your gas giant, and at the rate at which you were mining it, your economy would become orders of magnitude bigger than hours within minutes. Any more playing we could have done would have merely prolonged the inevitable, and that's not an interesting game for anyone to play. We didn't throw that game, we are just not very good in 1v1s and 2v2s that take place in large multi-planet systems. And that's why we were training in them today, trying to improve for our next Clan Wars match. Our strong point is 4v4s on a single giant planet. We usually clean up house in the MP lobby in them.

As for playing against us -- whenever you are up for it. For playing with us, however, you'd have to join our clan. As long as you have a headset w/mic and are willing to pay the join-up fee, you can join whenever you want (more info here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/insomniacult ).

If you are good at 1v1s (or at least better than us, which shouldn't be hard) we could use your help in our next Clan Wars match, and as it happens we have a spot open for an extra player. But we have to sign you up by the 26th of October, so think about it, if it sounds like something you'd like to do.


I wrote:Oh as for Terra...

New player was turtling there, not giving me enough information on his situation to make a good strategic call. I actually thought he had the entire planet lol. Really bad communication on his part, and really bad strategy for him to not try to expand at all. I explained it to him after the match, and he seems to have understood it.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby Qpo » 20 Nov 2014 23:10

L is by default bound to "Toggle Build Orders". This means pressing L once will set a factory to loop its current queue, and pressing it again will turn the looping off. Selecting multiple factories and pressing L to have them all loop sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't. Making sure takes time.

Main Menu -> Settings -> Keyboard -> Build -> Build Loop = L

The "Build Loop" command makes a factory loop production. Having fixed the bind, if you select a factory and click L two, five or however many times you want, it will loop production. Making factories loop their queue is now done as reliably as it is quick. There's no reason to have "Toggle Build Orders" bound to any key (you can still access the command in the order list on the right edge of your screen).
User avatar
Qpo
 
Joined: 16 May 2010 23:07
Location: Sweden

Unread postby icycalm » 05 Jan 2015 16:33

Everyone should install the "Infinite Build" mod (or whatever it's called). It's a huge help, and I don't want to see idle factories in my team again, except if you have purposefully cut the power to them (in which case the infinite build option should still be on).

Now a few words about the Jan 17 games. We will be fighting twice on our system and once on PAG's and BRN's. But PAG's system is a copy of our system only with a metal planet instead of an earth one, so we'll basically be fighting 3 times on our system and once on BRN's. So here's the strategy I propose:

1. On the 3 "home" fights we should go for two 2-player spawns, i.e. two megabases, with one player in each base building stuff, and the other fighting. The fighting player should scout the nearest enemy base and attack it right away, while the base-building player puts up a wall (and ONLY a wall -- i.e. no other defenses) in the opposite direction, to slow down any attack that may come in the meantime. Also, having two bases only makes it easy to connect them via a single teleporter, and to reinforce bases if the need arises.

This strategy should be enough to knock out at least one enemy base in most of those 3 games, which is something we've never accomplished on Clan Wars so far, so it would be a big step forward.

2. The BRN fight, on the other hand, is quite idiosyncratic. Their system is really weird, and I think I have it figured out. Basically, Arrakis is orbited by an extremely smashable moon (only 1 Halley needed), so it's not a good planet for a base (especially a megabase). And if I remember correctly, it doesn't even have too much metal. The moon, meanwhile, probably has as much metal as Arrakis. So this is my strategy for it:

-We all land on the moon and I get full use of all 4 commanders to spam vehicle factories like there is no tomorrow. No bots at all and no air, since there won't be any time for raiding from either side (though I'll be sure to stick a few spinners in the vehicle composition). Two players lead the vehicle rush and the fourth micros the vehicle fabbers to grab metal as soon as it is possible.

-I throw one orbital factory among all the vehicle ones, and send a fabber to the gas giant and one to Arrakis' moon, and the moment our moon is cleared I hop to the gas giant and one other player to Arrakis' moon. No one goes to the metal planet since it has no metal, and our opponents won't have the resources to activate it unless they win the gas giant from me.

If we get that far it will be a great show, and we can take it from there. The idea is to smash Arrakis' moon on it while holding our own moon, and the gas giant, which will give us effective control of the entire system and win the game. But even if we just manage to clear the moon, it will still be the first time we've scored this kind of victory in the Clan Wars, so it will suffice for now.

So that's what I have so far. I've played both PAG's and BRN's system a few times already with a bunch of people, and will play them a bunch more before Jan 17. Any ideas, lemme know here.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 12 Jan 2015 07:08

Here's some solid build order advice. I am only posting it because it's not very far from where my own experimentation has led me. If you are a beginner, you might prefer to not read it and experiment on your own. If you are near my level, you might have done enough experimentation on your own to be close to this, as I am. Posting it here helps all the dudes who are on my level get on the "same page", so to speak, and arrive at a similar starting point for further experimentation.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/233250/di ... 2092081762

[RLM] Stuart98 wrote:Build one, maybe even two factories first.

I go with a build order resembling this:

Bot factory (Metal extractor if right next to a metal spot) vehicle factory mex (mex if you didn't grab a mex before your second factory) pgen air factory pgen pgen vehicle factory x3 pgens galore vehicle factories galore.

First two factories should produce a single fabricator and then infinite dox/bolos. At some point queue up a third fabber by control clicking it.

First two fabbers should build metal extractors all around, with one of them building a radar before their second mex (maybe before their first). Third fabber should do nothing but build pgens.

Send in your dox in small groups as early as possible to try and snipe enemy fabbers. Only build one bot factory for the entire game as tanks eat them up.

Keep spamming bolos, infernos, and spinners at a 4:1:1 ratio and sending them in attack waves against the enemy. Maintain a good force of fighters as well and if the enemy has insufficient spinners, bombers.

This should help you win games.

This assumes you're playing skirmish games, you'll have to change this up a bit in galactic war.

Make sure that you're using infinite build, area commands, and area build as these will save a ton of time.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby ChevRage » 13 Jan 2015 17:24

With regards to the idle factories, there seems to be a mod called Auto Factory that can run that shit for you if you have nothing being built and have eco overflow.

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/rel- ... ory.55995/

You can install it with PAMM.

There's no rule against using it in the Clan Wars Rules section (or any other mod that might make the game easier for that matter), apart from maybe some vaguely related one that bans "infinite orbital queues" whatever that means, and one that doesn't allow server mods (which I assume this isn't). I haven't tried it out yet, nor have I read the entire thread I linked, so I'm not sure how it works with shared armies or if it clashes with any other mod.
User avatar
ChevRage
 
Joined: 23 Aug 2012 21:14
Location: Victoria, Australia

Unread postby icycalm » 13 Jan 2015 18:31

I've been using it for a while, and I think others are using it too. You should also get the other mod that puts all your factories automatically on infinite loop/infinite build. You can't really play at a high level without it.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 16 Jan 2015 15:18

I have a strategy for the 3 single-planet games tomorrow. It's high-risk/high-reward, but it has the advantage of being simple to execute, and since we are not doing any practice, I think it's the best for us at this point. So here goes.

1. We land in 2 spots. I do the base for chevvy and recoil does it for Rory.

2. We build only bot factories and air factories. About 60-70% bots and the rest air (and the air makes only fighters -- no bombers at all).

3. chevvy and Rory take the bots and make little clumps of them and go around the planet and destroy all the lone mexes and fabbers they find. They should not attack any bases, nor even go very near them. Just find where the bases are and dance around them, destroying as many mexes as you can. If they send vehicles after you, run away, while still destroying stuff. Vehicles can't catch you, they are too slow. The only way for them to catch you is to send bots or bombers. If they send bots, you'll have more, since we'll only be making bots. If they send bombers... well, that's why we are going 30-40% fighters. You will have air superiority, and you need to make sure that every clump of bots has its own little clump of fighters flying above them. That's the hardest part of what you need to do: a) make sure that you have several big clumps of bots dancing all around the enemies' bases and destroying their mexes and lone fabbers, and b) make sure that all these clumps have fighters over them at all times.

4. Meanwhile, how do we stop a vehicle group, if they send one at our bases? As long as we know the vehicle group is coming well in advance, we can just switch our bot factories from doxes to boom bots, and have a huge amount of them in short time, which can decimate vehicle groups -- UNLESS these vehicle groups have doxes in front of them. And this is where walls come in.

5. From the very beginning of the game recoil and I will send a couple of fabbers to build the Great Wall of China around our bases. I am not talking about a wall next to the bases -- I am talking FAR OUT. Roughly half-way between our bases and theirs -- that's how far. A single wall with openings now and then (for our bots to pass through), and with T1 laser turrets (the cheapest, weakest ones) at regular intervals. These walls will do two things: a) they will give us lots of advance warning of when a vehicle group is coming for us, and slow down their advance, and b) the cheap laser turrets will cut down any bot vanguards these vehicle groups have, leaving them open to be destroyed later on by our boom bot blitzes.

6. This entire strategy is meant to gain us MAP CONTROL, and force the opponents to spend all their time running around the map trying to clean out our many dox/fighter groups. Meanwhile, we will have grabbed all the metal inside our Great Wall of China, and we'll be sitting on it safely, while the enemy will have to fight nail and tooth for every mex of theirs that they keep. This should result in us outproducing them, and as long as recoil and I are good at spending this superior economy quickly (investing it in T2 vehicles and nukes), we should be able to win the game.

So tl;dr version: doxes and fighters only, constant raiding without direct engagement, Great Wall of China with only cheap turrets behind it (and the occasional radar), switching boom bots for base defense (and then switching back to doxes once the danger is over) -- and when we are outproducing them just nuke the fuck out of them and attack with T2 vehicles and finish it.

Any objections?

The only thing I am worried about is how well Rory and chevvy will be able to handle multi-tasked raiding with half a dozen raiding groups. They don't need to get the groups UNSCATHED, but at the same time they should not throw them at enemy bases and defenses and lose them asap. They need to be as aggressive as possible, without taking too many losses. Ideally we want the map flooded with our raiding groups and the enemies too busy cleaning them up to even think of a counter-attack. As long as Rory and chevvy do a half-decent job of it, they should keep the enemy occupied long enough for us to outproduce them.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby Some guy » 16 Jan 2015 18:10

It might be useful to build teleporters around our opponent's bases so that we can quickly send doxes to harass them. I think Infernos are invincible against boom bots though, they won't be able to get past their flamethrowers so we might want to make a few bombers in order to counter that possibility.
User avatar
Some guy
 
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 14:21
Location: UK

Unread postby icycalm » 16 Jan 2015 18:24

You don't understand the reality of the clan battles. Your teleporter proposal is not realistic.

It will be extremely difficult for you to handle the simple harassment as I explained it. If you have to make teleporters too, you won't manage it even for 5 minutes. We have never managed to use even a single teleporter successfully against a clan, even when we were doing no harassment. With harassment it will be impossible. You don't have the APM. One enemy player has the APM of both you and chevvy combined. (You are in the 50s and they are in the 100s range).

As for the infernos beating boom bots -- I didn't know that. If it's true my plan is unusable. (And for the same reason: you barely have the APM to cover your doxes with fighters; you will not be able to handle bombers too at the same time.)
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby Some guy » 16 Jan 2015 18:28

Ok fair enough.
User avatar
Some guy
 
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 14:21
Location: UK

Unread postby icycalm » 16 Jan 2015 18:28

Basically, not having their APM means that we need to keep plans AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE and try to beat them on the strategic level. Wild, unexpected strategic plans are the only thing that can get us a little closer to victory (but probably not to victory itself, for which we'll need to raise our APM, which is why I am recommending 1v1 practice for everyone).
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby recoil » 16 Jan 2015 19:19

icycalm wrote:4. Meanwhile, how do we stop a vehicle group, if they send one at our bases? As long as we know the vehicle group is coming well in advance, we can just switch our bot factories from doxes to boom bots, and have a huge amount of them in short time, which can decimate vehicle groups -- UNLESS these vehicle groups have doxes in front of them. And this is where walls come in.

Grenadiers may alleviate the tank problem, they can't go toe to toe with the tanks, but if we can get them behind walls they could put up some good defense. Also, if Rory and chevvy are quick enough, maybe we can knock down some factories with them as well.
User avatar
recoil
 
Joined: 26 Feb 2010 22:35
Location: California, USA

PreviousNext

Return to Cosmic War