default header

Battlegrounds

Starting instructions

Moderator: JC Denton

Starting instructions

Unread postby icycalm » 04 Sep 2020 19:13

Here's a large info dump to get us going. dan and I need you to follow these instructions asap, because if you don't we can't continue with our work.


1. The first thing you should do, is read the applicable rules for character creation. This is because we need to make your characters asap, and you need this info to decide on your characters.

-If you are in the D&D1 or D&D2 groups, you should read the entirety of the RULES BOOK found in the DARK SUN CAMPAIGN SETTING. It's 96 pages. It is the first book in the pdf I linked (don't read the second book, or anything beyond that). If you don't have the time within the next couple of days to read all 96 pages, quickly skim the section on character classes and pick one. So you can complete the entire step in ten minutes, or you can spend hours and hours reading everything and pondering your choice. It's up to you how much effort you want to put into this, but whatever your choice, dan and I need to know your character's class within 48 hours of this post, so get cracking. If you manage to read all 96 pages and have time and inclination to read more, move on to the 2nd Edition PLAYER'S HANDBOOK. Some of the rules in it are superseded by the Dark Sun rules, but the vast majority of them are not, so you will have to learn them eventually. You certainly don't need to learn them to start playing the game though, as your DM will guide you painlessly through the process, which at the most basic level is as simple as playing a videogame.

Image

-If you are in the D&D3 group, you should read the entirety of the PLAYER'S HANDBOOK V.3.5. That's 317 pages. If you don't have the time within the next couple of days to read all 317 pages, quickly skim the section on character classes and pick one. So you can complete the entire step in ten minutes, or you can spend hours and hours reading everything and pondering your choice. It's up to you how much effort you want to put into this, but whatever your choice, dan and I need to know your character's class within 48 hours of this post, so get cracking.

Image


SOME TIPS FOR ALL GROUPS

-Skip dual- and multi-classing if you are not an experienced TABLETOP D&D player. Even then, I highly recommend against them. It's much better to have a group of highly specialized characters than a bunch of jacks-of-all-trades and masters of none.

-You can also skip races, if you don't have the time to read about them, and your DM will find an appropriate one for you and help you understand it when you're rolling your character. Most players should be humans anyway, and there's not much to read about them. Elves can be good too depending on class, and muls are great in Dark Sun, especially if you're making a Gladiator.

-D&D Battlegrounds has a considerable versus component, so group composition is even more important here than in regular D&D (and it's very important there too for official adventures, because they're brutal). This means that your party of six Bards might be ill-advised, and you should probably discuss your choices with your teammates in your group's dedicated Discord channel before finalizing your choice. To level the playing field, I will give you my ideal six-character composition that I've used in every D&D videogame ever since Pool of Radiance in the '80s: two Wizards, two Clerics, a Paladin and a Thief. This party packs an awesome punch at mid- and high-levels due to its two Wizards (assuming they survive that long); has two healing powerhouses with its two Clerics, who can also armor up and put up a good melee fight; has the Paladin as main tank and melee fighter who ALSO has some limited healing ability; and finally relegates bows to the Thief who can also handle the sneaky stuff. A Ranger would have been better for bows than the Thief, but his sneaking is limited, and anyway the two Wizards handle ranged combat at higher levels better than any Ranger ever could. For a five-character build I'd remove one Cleric. For a four-character build I'd remove also a Wizard. For a Dark Sun build I'd replace one of the Wizards with a Psionicist and the Paladin with a Gladiator. In 2E the Wizards would be specialists for that extra memorized spell per level, and they would pick schools such that each of them covers the schools that the other one can't learn, so I'd have access to all schools. No idea how I'd adapt the above if I was playing 3.5E. D&D3 group should ask danjiro in your private channel if he has any pointers to give you. Feel free to experiment with compositions. The above is just a baseline recommendation that I am giving to all groups to level the playing field between the inexperienced and more experienced groups and players.

So the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM of work you have to do to move forward is skim through the classes in your respective rules book and pick one, which can be done in as quick a time as TEN MINUTES, then go in your group's particular Discord channel (NOT the main Battlegrounds chat!) and discuss your choice with your teammates. Then state your final choice while tagging your DM and he will arrange a time for you to roll the character.

If you haven't yet purchased Fantasy Grounds Unity on Steam, do it now because that's where we'll be rolling the characters, and if you haven't upped your Patreon pledge yet, please do so at this time.

Any questions on the above, post them here!


P.S. DON'T read anything else D&D-related except what I have indicated above!
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 16 Sep 2020 03:08

A quick note on where we are.

The Dark Sun starting adventure choices have been prepared for a while now, but the Pathfinder ones have taken dan and me a lot longer to sort because there are tons of them. But now we're just about done. Only one detail remains to be sorted, and then I can create the "app" pages for all groups on the site, and they can take their pick, and we can move on. I plan to do this tomorrow, but it might take me an extra day, we'll see. After that things will start moving much faster, as we'll be rolling characters and getting acquainted with FGU. We're still very much on track to play the first sessions before the end of the month. I'll have more news soon.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 22 Sep 2020 03:42

I've prepared the group pages for groups D&D1 and D&D2, on the website:

D&D1: http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd1/

D&D2: http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd2/

For the time being, they are identical, because you're starting on the same planet.

The pages are still a work-in-progress, but at least you have all the information you need to pick an adventure now. At the top you have the map of the greater area (click on it to enlarge), and below you have a zoomed-in map of a smaller part of that area, where both groups will be starting, and you get a choice of three adventures. Click on them for info on each. That is all the info you can have at this time, and you have to make your choice asap, ideally within a couple of days.

As you can see by reading the adventure info on the selection map, the adventures vary in required power levels. Easier adventures tend to also give lower rewards and fewer campaign possibilities (e.g. less powerful NPCs to meet and befriend, and so on), but they are of course easier to survive. If the groups were alone on the planet, it would make sense to clear some easier adventures first before tackling the harder ones, but with the added competition, all sorts of different strategies are now viable. Notice also the distance between various adventures. That will matter when you finish one and want to travel to the next one. Of course, you have no idea WHERE an adventure will leave you when it's finished. You also have no idea if your next desired adventure will still be there after the current one; the other team might have played it, for example.

Above all though, you should really choose depending on what you FEEL like playing. These three adventures on the map will only be available ONCE in D&D Battlegrounds, and once they are gone (i.e. once a group plays them), they are gone for good. You will never get another crack at them, so if one of them sounds intriguing to you above all the rest, you should probably go for it. Think of these adventures as videogames that you only get to play once, and probably only if you pick them RIGHT NOW.

Feel free to read as much of The Wanderer's Journal as you wish, apart from the handful of Monster Manual pages it has at the end (though most of those are fine too, as they're mostly common animals and monsters, apart from the Dragon, who's so far out of your league and D&D experience anyway that his stats and powers will sound like gibberish to you I am sure, so if you want to take a look, go ahead; it's best not to though). It's the second booklet included with the Campaign Setting boxed set: https://thetrove.net/Books/Dungeons%20&%20Dragons/2nd%20Edition%20(AD&D)/Dark%20Sun/Dark%20Sun%20Campaign%20Setting.pdf

It starts at page 100 of the PDF, and you can read up to and including page 184 of the PDF (page 84 of the booklet).

Image

There's info in there on absolutely anything you'd want to know to make an informed choice on which adventure to pick. You can learn about the cities, the oases, the ruins, the geographical features, the personalities of the sorcerer-kings and their cities' histories: it's all in there, and absolutely nothing spoils anything because it's written from the point of view of "the Wanderer", who is an actual personality in the setting, and who is an "unreliable narrator", if you know what that means (though most of the stuff is reliable, just too vague to be of much help in a tactical situation. Strategically, though, and in terms of role-playing, it's priceless.) The info is basically what a reasonably educated Athasian would know, so as long as you have some decently educated characters in your group—which you will have—all the info should be accessible to the group, and you can keep consulting the book throughout your adventures on Athas.

So study up, talk between yourselves (but not across groups!), and let me know your choice in your respective Discord channels.

And the Pathfinder group's page is coming soon. It's 5x more work, so I am still working on it.


P.S. I forgot to say that all Dark Sun characters start at 3rd level (normal Dark Sun rule, which you will have already seen in the rule book; worth mentioning again though).
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby danjiro » 22 Sep 2020 23:35

For group D&D3:

I've been discussing it with icy and we've decided to bypass 3.5E (for now) and go straight to PF1. This will simplify things for you guys, since the PF1 rules explicitly include the necessary changes to the races and classes to make them Golarion-"flavored", so to speak. The rule changes are minor so you should be able to just switch over with no fuss and everything should look very familiar to you. I think you guys will be pleased with some of the expanded options available in PF1 that were missing from 3.5E, particularly when it comes to class tweaks, feats, and the like.

Image

The latest version of the PF1 rulebook:

https://thetrove.net/Books/Pathfinder/1 ... ing%29.pdf

Use this as a your primary sourcebook from now on.
User avatar
danjiro
 
Joined: 08 Mar 2011 19:24
Location: Florida, USA

Unread postby icycalm » 23 Sep 2020 05:05

And here is finally the third group's page: http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd3/

Unlike with the first two groups, this page is right now complete: it contains absolutely everything the players should read and are ALLOWED to read, with the rule book and the lore book right at the top (click to read), and below them the adventure selection map. The lore book will teach you about the world, and therefore help you pick the adventure, so take a couple of days to skim it before making your choice.

Some notes on the adventures:

First off, I had promised eight, and delivered "only" five. Why is that?

Well, it turns out that two of them were different aspects of the same story, one for a good party and the other for an evil one, so those must be run simultaneously. I would have liked to offer the choice of an evil campaign, because to my knowledge it's the only one that exists in all of D&D—and certainly at this scale—but the good campaign sounds great too, and if you pick one now it means we can never play the other one. So what we'll do instead is wait until we have two parties of first level starting simultaneously, and as long both groups are willing, we'll play this dual campaign. Note that, as the campaigns are written, they don't overlap, so the groups wouldn't be interacting. However, that's where we can insert our versus mechanics and make things even more interesting. It's a long-term project though, but it should be incredible when it happens. Here are the covers to whet your appetites:

Image

Image

No prizes for guessing which is which: it's democrats vs. republicans.

So that's how the adventures went from eight to six.

And then we lost another one when I realized that it's connected to Earth lol... Check this out:

Image

Paizo wrote:In a distant land polluted by an alien menace from beyond the stars, a great cancer grows within the earth. As its tendrils reach out through the dreams of those who learn and study its existence, a sinister cult grows more active in preparing the way for a devastation that will destroy more than the minds of would-be heroes. Can the adventurers reclaim lost memories in time to stop the advance of a cataclysmic contagion that could threaten all of Golarion? Can they resist the mind-shattering truths revealed by the Yellow Sign, and the monstrous force it symbolizes? The Strange Aeons Adventure Path pits the heroes against the cosmic horrors of the Cthulhu Mythos, with new monsters, mind-shattering terrors, and explorations far beyond the known lands of Golarion.


If I am reading this right, it connects Pathfinder, either directly or indirectly, to Earth, which means this is a dream come true if you've read my latest thoughts in the Changing settings thread/chapter of Ultimate Edition, so we'll save this campaign for when we are ready to connect the D&D settings to all the rest of the RPG settings and systems, starting with the Cthulhu RPG.

And that's how we ended up with "only" five campaign choices. Keep in mind that the other two groups have only three choices between them, so you guys are still spoilt for choice.

Another thing to note is that there are no levels mentioned in the descriptions because all the adventures begin at level 1.

If you are interested in the Empire phase/mechanics, note that some of the adventures provide you with various levels of starting resources for a domain, so if you're after a kingdom pay attention to the "Empire notes" I've added at the bottom of some of the adventures, because starting it from scratch on your own can be prohibitively expensive.

Finally, note that each of these adventures is the first part of a six-parter that takes you from level 1 to 20, which is essentially the end of D&D. This means that you might end up "locked-into" whatever campaign you pick for a VERY long time, at least a year by my estimation. Now, this is unique in all of D&D: no other setting has campaigns and adventures like that: in all the other settings, even the epicest of adventure series would at the most take you 5-10 levels. So in order to go from 1 to 20, you would end up playing at least three-four UNCONNECTED series of adventures/campaigns. That's the tradition that dan and I are familiar with, because we've never played Pathfinder before. So we're not quite sure how to approach Pathfinder. On the one hand, these freakin' mega-campaigns seem epic as fuck and utterly ground-breaking, but on the other hand you lose the freedom to travel freely and try all sorts of different things and plotlines. It seems that Pathfinder RAILROADS you, and I don't know how to deal with it. Now, usually, a series of connected adventures will allow the group to take a breather in-between, and even slot in the odd unconnected adventure, but the PF adventures seem to be extremely tightly scripted, because every few pages they say to the DM "and by this point, the players should be level 3, and by that point they will have reached level 5", and so on. It's not at all like normal D&D where the adventures are like "yeah, it's all cool if they are level 7-10, and if they aren't just adjust these values here and there, and it'll work out fine". So again, on the one hand I love this strictness because it makes my job easier, but on the other hand it means that if you want to take a break between two adventures and try some random other adventure, by the time you've finished it you might be overleveled to continue the campaign. And if this is so, then all the planet-hopping and versus quests and the Empire phase I have set up for Battlegrounds probably won't work out.

What is the solution? I don't know because I haven't looked into the PF stuff enough. We're gonna have to start without knowing these answers, and figure things out as we go. But the reason I said all the above is to make you understand that there is a chance you might be locked into a single campaign for an entire freakin' year, so for god's sake pick the one that sounds coolest to you because it might be all you're gonna get for a VERY LONG TIME. I will try everything I can to avoid this, but it might end up being unavoidable. So pick wisely!

Finally, a note for the D&D1 and D&D2 teams: feel free to peruse D&D3's group page. There's nothing there for the time being you are not allowed to see. Check it out, so you can get an idea of the PF setting and the pretty great differences that its adventure flavors have compared to Dark Sun. I will let you know when the other groups' pages are off-limits, but for now we're good. And also note that I am going to update your group pages soon so that, just like D&D3, all your sourcebooks will be readily available in your group page.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 24 Sep 2020 23:17

Exciting news today: all three groups have picked adventures! Moreover, I have updated the pages of the first two groups with the new state of the overworld, plus reading material. The overworld is the same for the two groups, but the reading material differs, so the two Dark Sun groups are starting to diverge. I have not updated the Pathfinder group's page yet. We're working on it. Until then, enjoy:

Image

http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd1/

Image

http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd2/

Image

Each group gets a short story of about 10-15 pages to read. Click on the covers on the site to read them. I didn't just pull them out of my ass, they are included in the adventure, they are related to its events, and they are used to flesh out the world and the area and immerse the DM and the players in them. You know how some movies begin by showing you scenes that don't include the protagonists, but which are related to their circumstances? It's called foreshadowing, and that's the same thing here. As viewers in the cinema, we learn things that the protagonists don't, which heightens the drama later on once the consequences of those early scenes reach the protagonists. In D&D, on the other hand, the players are both protagonists and viewers, and it's for their "viewer" dimension that these supplementary materials are meant. You don't have to read them. You can play the adventures perfectly fine without them. But you will lose out on a lot of color and detail, and will be less immersed as a result. You'll also understand less about the world, and therefore probably won't be able to make as good judgement calls as you'd otherwise make. That said, not everyone in the group SHOULD be equally wise and intelligent and knowledgeable and so on. If you are playing a fairly dumb tanky character, it's even good role-playing to not know much, and to not care to know. Or you could be playing a wizard who only cares about his spells and pays attention to nothing else; he doesn't have to be a dumb character. So in any group, you'll usually have a couple of guys who read everything the DM gives them cover to cover, then a couple guys who read the absolute minimum and just show up to play, and then perhaps a couple more guys who are somewhere in the middle. It goes without saying that the DM will fall in one extreme of this spectrum: the bookworm extreme, otherwise he wouldn't be a good DM, and indeed DMs who aren't passionate about reading a lot tend to be bad DMs. You just need to be immersed into the rules and settings and plotlines, in order be able to run everything properly, and the more you read the more you understand, and the more immersed you get. But the players can do whatever they want as long as they have AT LEAST a couple among them who read a lot and will take charge in role-playing situations where extensive knowledge of the world will be required. The others can coast on the bare minimum and just swing their blades and sling their spells when the time comes; and of course there'll also be players somewhere in-between. All I am saying is: IT'S ALL GOOD, and just read as much or as little as you like OF WHAT I GIVE YOU. Under no circumstances should you read anything that's not included in your group's page, and if I find out you googled anything you need to look for a new group :)

Now these updates mark a point of departure for both how we handle the overworld, and the group pages. From now on, all group pages are accessible TO ALL THE OTHER GROUPS, plus of course any non-player viewers. So the overworld map is common to both, and will remain so, and the groups can see each other's every step. Click on the adventures on the map to see what each group picked. After a session is concluded, one player from each group will be required to write a brief summary of what occurred and post it on the site as a blog/diary entry. Below that we'll post the full stream of the session. This way, the entire history of each group will be available for anyone to follow, and if someone follows ALL groups, they'll be able to follow a gargantuan story that lasts for years and makes Game of Thrones and its universe look like a TV commercial. And in order to take it all in, each group will HAVE to check each other's group page, and read the various synopses, and perhaps also their supplementary material. I strongly encourage you to do so! And again, a few people will read everything, and others will lightly skim stuff just to get an idea, and that is all ok.

This means, among other things, that every group will know exactly the other groups' composition, all the way down to what items they have. But that's okay, because it's balanced: everyone knows everything, and they need to come up with strategies and tactics to defeat the others. Each group will be worth a certain number of epic/mythic points that grows as the group grows, and in order to unlock epic/mythic adventures, they'll have to spend such points gained by wiping other groups. That's how I will balance against a strong group chasing down a newly spawned 1st-level group: they won't be worth much, and they'll be a waste of time that could be put into an adventure to grow in power. Moreover, we are eliminating die rolls for planet spawning: you'll be able to pick planet from now on. This way, a new group can avoid planets with strong groups on them.

I'll have more details about all this later, but for now I just want you to understand that it is OKAY, and even ENCOURAGED, to read and watch EVERYTHING posted in EVERY GROUP PAGE. So have fun with that, and I'll have more updates soon!
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 12 Oct 2020 06:36

Big updates today for the Dark Sun groups, check them out:

http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd1/
http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd2/

First thing you'll notice is we now have the official Dark Sun music theme (if it doesn't work on your browser, let me know and I'll look into it; in the meantime try another browser, it should play automatically on loading the page). Don't ask where I found this music; as far as you are concerned, this is the official Dark Sun theme. I spent half a day looking for it so that you can enjoy it and allow it to draw you into the setting, so let it do that. There will be lots and lots of music on the site and throughout the campaigns, and trust me when I say that the best way for you to appreciate this music and become immersed in the setting is to not inquire on its origin. Just accept what I give you as I give it to you. It's for your own good.

Moving on, you will notice a bunch of new books up. Use them to better understand the rules, the setting and your character options. Use them to create specialized characters, and be ready to tell me your build when I contact you later during this week. Only the books that are up are available to you. You will be unlocking further books as you play, but for now you only have what's up there. Also, don't worry if your particular character class doesn't have a specialized book up. That doesn't mean it's a worse class. First pick your class from the Rules Book, and IF it turns out that it has a specialized book, continue with that, otherwise just stick with the core Rules Book, and you're good. Same goes with the races. The game is very well balanced and trust me when I say that super-specialized characters come with as many headaches and pitfalls as advantages.

Note that the pages are still a work in progress. In particular I will be improving the quality of the cover scans, even going as far as touching up imperfections with Beakman's and shubn's help via Photoshop etc. Another thing is that the two main Dark Sun books—the Rules Book and The Wanderer's Journal—still link to the entire boxed set, which means you must navigate its contents to find them, and take care not to read the adventure at the end. With Beak's help I will break down the boxed set into separate PDFs, then upload those to the site so that when you click on a book, you'll get precisely that and not the whole boxed set. The rest of the books are okay, but we'll also be rehosting all of them eventually so that you'll never have to leave our website to read up on the campaign material.

And we're still working on the Pathfinder group's page. The setting will be getting its own theme music and a bunch of more books for you to check shortly.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 19 Oct 2020 14:03

I finally have news for group D&D3. Check out your updated group page: http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd3/

These are the updates:

-Pathfinder theme music now plays whenever you load the page, though for some reason it's kind of buggy on Firefox. It usually plays the first time, but if you reload the page it doesn't. That doesn't happen with the Dark Sun theme in the other two group pages, though the code is identical, so my only surmise is that it has to do with the PF theme being longer.

-The Trove's restructuring and domain change had broken the links to the two PF books, so I fixed them. Make sure you let me know if you notice broken links anywhere on the site.

-Three new books have been added. Check them out if you want, but if you don't have the time or inclination, it's all cool, they are just additional specialized options, you can ignore them and just pick something from the Core Rulebook. dan might offer some more explanations soon. We are considering giving you more books, but we're not sure yet. For now you have these five. This is what a small PF book collection looks like:

Image

We'll be making all the books available via unlocking. We're just trying to figure out precisely how many to offer at the start.

-At the bottom of the page you can now see the cover of Kingmaker: Stolen Land, the adventure you picked. You can click on it to view it at full res, which is much higher than the version offered on the map. It's a gorgeous cover.

-Cover quality for the five books at the top is not ideal, and I'll be improving it in the future. Cover quality for Kingmaker: Stolen Land is ideal, and that's why I am hosting the file on the site instead of hotlinking it off Amazon or whatever. When you see a file hosted on the site, it means it's in ideal quality, and the plan is eventually to have everything hosted on the site.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 19 Oct 2020 17:47

I have news for all groups.


1. First up, the D&D3 page: http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd3/

On second thought, I removed two of the three new books I added earlier today. They mostly add brand-new classes which are better left as unlockables as the campaign progresses. So the only new book you get is the Advanced Race Guide. This includes both rules for specializing the core races, plus brand-new races. It is only the former that you're allowed to use for the time being (i.e. pages 1-76). You'll be unlocking the new races as you play.


2. I also made some pretty heavy edits to the D&D1 and D&D2 pages:

http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd1/
http://dndbattlegrounds.net/groups/dnd2/

First off, I removed the older maps and replaced them with a single larger one, which now contains all the currently-unlocked adventures. This is the same map that features on the frontpage of the site.

Second, I've removed THREE of the books. That's partly because they feature some spoilers in the lore, and partly because I've decided to make that material unlockable later. If you've already read some of that stuff, it's not a big deal, you just won't be able to use it for now.


This update CONCLUDES the group pages for now. All the material you will need to make your first characters and start playing is now online. You've already picked your adventures. We're ready to go as soon as you roll your characters, and this will be happening this week.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby Some guy » 20 Oct 2020 13:00

About The Will and the Way, it lists some mistakes in The Complete Psionics Handbook such as devotions being mislabeled as sciences or powers having the wrong prerequisites listed, I think one or two powers are even in the wrong discipline. So we should use it just to make sure psionic powers are correctly categorised when we pick them. The book does make small additions to the rules of psionic combat but they are optional so we can just use what we need and then ignore the rest of the book until it is properly unlocked.
Image
User avatar
Some guy
 
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 14:21
Location: UK

Unread postby icycalm » 03 Dec 2020 12:42

So here's a big info dump on how the D&D Battlegrounds project is progressing. I got good news and bad news, but ultimately even the bad news stem from good news, as you will see, so in the end it's all good. But let's start from the straight-up good news that are easier to explain and understand.

The straight-up good news is that danjiro's group, D&D3, which is the Pathfinder group, will be starting this Sunday at 3:30 PM UTC, and I'll be playing with them as player, taking the fifth slot in the team (the others are ChevRage, Robomoo, ExiledOne and Archonus). I've never played as player before, and with dan as DM and the War for the Crown campaign, which is all available on Steam and whose first part we bought as Fantasy Grounds DLC, it'll basically be like playing a videogame, but better. I can't freakin' wait. (We are setting up a location-triggered music list, and there is also a sound system we can plug in where, when you swing a sword or cast a fireball, it plays the appropriate sound, plus background sounds for forests or busy taverns, etc. Not sure if we'll have this up and running by this Sunday, but it's coming eventually. Like I said, exactly like a videogame.)

Fantasy Grounds - Pathfinder RPG - War for the Crown AP 1: Crownfall (PFRPG)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/8327 ... all_PFRPG/

Image

Paizo wrote:As Taldor's entire capital city gathers to celebrate, few realize that conspiracy and royal rivalries are about to shake the empire to its core! When a high-minded cabal of senators and nobles tries to steer the nation away from disaster, Emperor Stavian III orders a bloodbath in the senate halls, trapping neophyte spies inside layer upon layer of magical security. As tensions rise and the emperor falls, can the heroes escape the forgotten halls beneath the senate and save the heir to Taldor from an assassin's blade? And even then, can anyone prevent a civil war that will tear one of the Inner Sea's oldest nations apart at its rotting seams?


Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

It appears to be a grand urban campaign of political intrigue, with more role-playing than combat according to dan, so it should be a perfect introduction to videogame people to see what proper D&D can do that the videogames can't. I'll be livestreaming the whole thing on Twitch, so you're welcome to join us and take a look, though note that we won't be interacting with viewers in the stream chat. That'll be forbidden for the entire D&D Battlegrounds project. There just won't be time for people to parse all the information in the game and at the same time chat on Twitch. But the viewers are free to chat between themselves.

And by the way, there is still an open slot in this team if a sixth player wants to join us, though not if you've already joined teams 1 or 2; I mean a brand-new participant. Talk to me to add your account to the site, and talk to dan to roll your character if you're interested.

So let's talk now about my groups, groups 1 and 2. Things here start getting messy, now that I have an idea of how Fantasy Grounds works. Originally, I had imagined that the program just takes in a few numbers, say your strength, intelligence, etc. and your hit points, and that you roll the dice in the program but calculate the math in your head, and then manually subtract hit points from the wounded and whatnot. In actual fact, however, the program does pretty much everything. Which means that you must enter, not only the players' stats, but also all the enemies', which is a ton of extra work because we are talking about dozens of enemy types PER SESSION. And then, when the player chooses to attack an enemy, the calculations happen automatically and the program tells you the result. So the program must know ALL the rules, including the Dark Sun-specific rules, because that's where groups 1 and 2 are situated. But the extra Dark Sun rule changes are massive. And Fantasy Grounds doesn't have them. No VTT has them. We're talking TWO extra rule books: the psionics book, that permeates everything that happens in Dark Sun because every player and nearly every enemy has some psionic ability there; and the Dark Sun rulebook that includes non-metal weapon rules, piecemeal armor rules, defiler magic rules, heatstroke rules etc. etc. And that's without even mentioning that Fantasy Grounds doesn't have any of the Dark Sun races, and some of the classes. I would have to manually enter or even program all that stuff in. I had no idea how much work we're talking about. To give you an idea, if you go to the Fantasy Grounds forum, there are threads where people are talking about converting the psionic rules for YEARS and nothing's been done yet. By actual programmers. I just don't see how I could do it myself, let alone before this weekend. Take a look at this thread for example: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/s ... ark-Sun-2e

goodmanje wrote:Someone with a lot more free time than me should convert Dark Sun for FG. I'll buy it!! Lol


hawkwind wrote:i think someone has to the psionic book which would be a major undertaking


goodmanje wrote:Yea, I was noticing that. Would have to code support for the psionics system. Bummer....


If you read the whole thread you'll see some people saying they've done some conversion work, but you'd have to contact them and hope they give you the files, and then hope that they've done a GOOD job in the conversion, and then learn how to use it, etc. It is a LOT of work, and success isn't even guaranteed. Frankly, it's overwhelming, and you know I don't get overwhelmed easily.

Now compare my predicament with danjiro's. I bought the first out of six parts of the campaign for him, Crownfall at €22,99, and he bought the Pathfinder Core Rulebook at €45,99, granted with slight discounts due to the recent sale, but it's still a considerable expense for both of us. But now he has all the rules and races, classes etc. coded in. He has all the enemies of the entire adventure. He has the descriptions to every area pop up automatically when you enter it. He has all the combat maps premade with the enemies pre-placed. All the players have to do is click attack, and the program does everything. And there are no extra rules in this adventure to worry about like psionics, etc. Moreover, consider that dan has used Fantasy Grounds before. Not the latest version, Unity, but he has run games with the older version. So he already knows how to use the program, he just needs a refresher, and then to study the adventure. He should have plenty of time to get all that done by Sunday. In my case, though, I am nowhere near the point where I can even start preparing for the TWO adventures I was supposed to run this weekend. I am swamped just trying to figure how to add Athasian muls and psionicist character sheets into the game lol.

Now there is a "quick" solution to all this. We just play Pathfinder with my groups too. I buy the PF Core Rulebook on Steam, so that's another €45,99, and then I buy as DLC the other two campaigns currently available for selection in the Pathfinder overworld on the Battlegrounds site: Rise of the Runelords, and Carrion Crown.

Fantasy Grounds - Pathfinder RPG - Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path Anniversary Edition (PFRPG) €54,99
https://store.steampowered.com/app/6270 ... ion_PFRPG/

Fantasy Grounds - Pathfinder RPG - Carrion Crown AP 1: The Haunting of Harrowstone (PFRPG) €19,99
https://store.steampowered.com/app/7278 ... one_PFRPG/

The first is more expensive because it includes all six chapters of the campaign. The second includes only the first chapter (and the rest can be purchased later separately).

This would solve all my problems. Every aspect of both the rules and the adventures would already be coded in, and all I'd have to do is click some buttons. With one caveat: I don't know the Pathfinder rules, I only know AD&D 2nd Edition, so I would have to learn these rules, which wouldn't take long, but I certainly wouldn't be ready for this weekend. The upshot is that I wouldn't have to learn these rules VERY WELL to get started, since the program would be handling most of it. But it's still some work to do because special situations arise that need judgement calls, and you don't want me pausing the game for half an hour while I read the rules. Moreover, half of the game is role-playing, and that includes rules too that I presume are not coded into Fantasy Grounds. So I would definitely need to do some studying if we chose this path, but it would be manageable, and at the end of it we'd be guaranteed to have a great experience.

However, this would mess up the entire Battlegrounds project, because we'd be confined to whatever DLC is available on Steam, which might look like a lot at first—1748 DLCs lol—but some of it isn't D&D, and even those that are are a fraction of what exists in print. We would not be able to play in MOST of the worlds and systems, if we stuck to DLC. No Planescape, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Birthright, etc. etc. Even Ravenloft they have almost nothing (just Curse of Strahd, as far as I can see). Even Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk, where they have some stuff, they have maybe 1% or 2% of what exists, and what they don't have is precisely the best stuff. Only for Pathfinder and 5E they seem to have almost everything. And while a lot of that stuff is great, without Planescape we can't even connect the worlds together properly. So basically, the DLC-only path is a dead-end and would kill the project. Ultimately dan and I HAVE to learn to input all that stuff in, including somehow rules, not just adventures.

However, Dark Sun is the absolute HARDEST of those rules and settings to code in. So it looks unlikely that we'll be able to play it right away. It would make much more sense to ease gently into Fantasy Grounds by first running DLC stuff, and then after a few months of that, slowly learn to add stuff in, and move into easier, normal settings like Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk, before advancing to tougher stuff like Planescape and Dark Sun.

So this is what's going to happen. This Sunday I join danjiro's group as player, and I begin to learn the Pathfinder rules, since that's what he's running. It's much easier to learn the rules as player than as DM, and I'll begin the process on Sunday. Then by Monday, we'll know exactly how Fantasy Grounds works, and we can make the call of whether to move the other two groups to Pathfinder, and just buy the DLC to start easing ourselves into Fantasy Grounds. Another option would be to start the other groups in the Forgotten Realms, where there are no psionics or weird rules, and where a few 2E DLC do exist that we can start on. That way I will already know the rules, and I won't have to add any material manually to play. That would be the fastest way to guarantee we can play the week after, and have a good time. And then we take it from there.

So basically, the Battlegrounds project WILL be launched this Sunday at 3:30 PM UTC, for group 3. Groups 1 and 2 should wait until Monday when I will make the decision on what we'll do. Ultimately, I believe that even this bad news is good news because it means that, when Fantasy Grounds is set up properly, it works even more like a videogame than I had originally thought. At the start, it will take us a while to learn how to use it, so the game will probably run slower than it would if we were playing in person, but once we become proficient at it, then speed and smoothness will pick up, and I expect a few months later it will be much faster than in person, not to mention smoother and more immersive with all the extra features available. We'll just have to be patient and put all the extra work in to make it happen. And when I say "we" I mean dan and I. The players won't have to do any work, they'll just have to be patient.

So follow our adventures with dan's group on Twitch on Sunday, and look out for an update from me in this thread on Monday. And if you have any questions or suggestions in the meantime, post them in this thread. And finally, don't forget we have one open slot for Sunday, for anyone who is interested.

Gosh I can't wait to play. I hope dan doesn't botch it somehow. No pressure there, dan. The entire Insomnia community is counting on you.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby Some guy » 03 Dec 2020 20:54

I can see a problem with you playing in danjiro's group whilst also DMing the other two groups. If his group gets into a versus battle with one of the other two groups they'd have a big advantage as you would know everyone's stats, abilities, equipment etc. The simple solution to this is to simply not have your character fight in the versus matches for some reason you can come up with if it happens but that wouldn't be very fun for you, plus it would make the fight a 5v4. You could pretend not to know the other party's spells and whatnot but I think it would be very awkward for you to e.g. pretend not to know that the enemy wizard has multiple spells that are short range and just decide to charge into them anyway. Another alternative is for your character to be controlled by the other players just for the battle.

If groups one and two start in Forgotten Realms then this probably won't be an issue for quite some time but eventually we'll have to deal with it somehow.
Image
User avatar
Some guy
 
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 14:21
Location: UK

Unread postby icycalm » 03 Dec 2020 21:17

I'll be guest-starring in the D&D3 campaign, there won't be any issues. As you said, I don't have to take part in the versus fights, or we can turn my character to an NPC or henchman via "AI" during those fights. We have tons of options. D&D is super-flexible with this type of stuff. I probably won't even be able to play in all sessions since I'll have to run my two groups too, and doubtless sometimes the scheduling will overlap. Ideally I'd prefer not to be absent, but it looks like it can't be helped, especially if a fourth group forms, which looks likely. Because, right now, it looks like the optimal start would be all groups starting at Pathfinder. But since the default party size in Pathfinder is four, with our 15 players plus me we actually have four parties lol...

Need to think more on this. It would be quite epic to have four parties. And a fifth could be made easily with another four players, which I think we can get fairly soon.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Unread postby icycalm » 11 Jan 2021 20:33

lol I'm such a moron.

We don't need dan to be in our every game, to help with FG. We just need him to be available to help. This might mean that for example he is available to take a call or text message, but it can also mean that, while he's running his campaign in a FG instance and in one Discord voice channel, I am running one of my campaigns in another FG instance and another voice channel, so I can hop into his and ask for help if I need it.

We could have been playing at least two sessions per weekend instead of one, and D&D3 could have been playing every weekend. They would have played four sessions instead of two by now—five with last weekend's missed opportunity when I was busy—and they would have made shitloads of progress...

Oh well, live and learn. And we're certainly learning a lot here, and very quickly.

So quite probably there'll be two sessions this weekend. And I have other tricks up my sleeve to discuss with you guys soon, so look out for those. Quite radical ideas are coming...
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands

Re: Starting instructions

Unread postby icycalm » 21 Jan 2022 17:04

Whoever has the “Pathfinder Gazetteer” in their hard drive should delete it unless you have gigs of the stuff for backup purposes. In either case this book is off-limits to you. I know I gave it to everyone at the start along with the core rules, but it was a mistake. All of you DO get the book unlocked with your first Pathfinder character, but the character has to discover the text by playing the game and rolling Knowledge checks among other things. Those of you who’ve already read the book or parts of it—fair enough. Your characters will just be more knowledgeable than others. But you probably read the book a year ago anyway, when I gave it to you, so I doubt you remember all that much. I bet most people didn’t read it at all, and those that did only read parts and remember even less. Which is perfect for our purposes.

The only book you have all unlocked and are all allowed to read in full so far is the Pathfinder “Core Rulebook”. Beyond that, you can read all the campaign threads and whatever you see posted on the overworld when I make it.
User avatar
icycalm
Hyperborean
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2006 00:08
Location: Tenerife, Canary Islands


Return to Battlegrounds