Hardware

[Jedah]

While far from perfect, I personally like the button layout in the Madcatz SFIV model more than the RAP current standard.


So are the Madcatz sticks coming to Europe officially?

This is one online shop that still has them:

http://www.gameswave.com/shop.php?Ref=3 ... 8658015589

[Recap]

This is another thing that Jedah doesn't understand, being the arcade stick noob that he is. Button placement, like stick and button model, is a very personalized preference. To say that the TE stick has objectively better button placement, or an objectively better stick model, than a top RAP is absurd. In what way then does the TE stick "kick the RAP sticks in the nuts?" What stick make does the TE use? Is it Sanwa or Seimitsu? Whatever the case may be, if you prefer the other company you are better off buying either a Sanwa Hori or a Seimitsu Hori.

Actually, I think I could write some sort of a theory for the distance buttons-stick being plainly wrong whichever your taste is in all these new home models (that being an inherited feature from the original Astro City-era panels, where all the distances have to be diminished given that they needed to make place for two players in front of just a 28'' screen). And how the button placement should depend indeed directly on the distance buttons-stick (which determines the angle for you arms/hands). Then again, nobody would care, so.

[burnsro]

According to whom? Who is rating them?

This list I think is mainly made for those who have never held a joystick in their life, have absolutely no personal opinion and are asking the same question about "Which stick is better?" over and over again in the NeoGAF arcade stick thread.

Most people don't need a list like this since they already have their own preferences and know what they are looking for.

I think the list is interesting because MarkMan works at MadCatz and was heavily involved in making the SFIV sticks. So seeing his opinion at where the MadCatz sticks should be in the ranking shows around the quality that they were shooting for.

[Recap]

MarkMan works at MadCatz and was heavily involved in making the SFIV sticks.

Now this is what I meant. That should go unavoidably attached to that very ranking. It obviously explains a lot.

Anyhow, my sincere congrats to him if he has something to do with finally letting Americans know and purchase what Japanese have had for years.

[icycalm]

I added a note to the ranking.

[icycalm]

Looks exactly like the Vewlix panel. Strange, since I've played a bit on the Vewlix back in late 2006, and I don't remember disliking the look of the panel. But I guess I was paying more attention to the screen (Raiden IV, Battle Fantasia, etc.) than the panel at the time.

[icycalm]

Fate/Unlimited Codes stick that came out on the 18th of December:



http://www.hori.jp/items/detail.php?id=679

I totally missed that one. You'd think they'd be more likely to release a Basara stick than one for this game. Either way, Hori must be making lots of money with all these RAPs. Good for them, I say. I remember seeing the original in a store in Akihabara circa 2004 and being completely blown away by it.

[icycalm]

http://www.edge-online.com/blogs/control-freak

How do you feel going up against companies like Hori, whose products you’ve no doubt been using for many years?

It’s exciting. We knew going into this project that, in order to satisfy the hardcore fans, we needed to put something out there that was at a previously unseen level of quality. With no disrespect to Hori, I don’t think their range of sticks has evolved much beyond the new artwork variations in the last few years. You could say that their sticks are already so good that they don’t need to evolve, but I think that we’ve set our standards higher still.

And of course the interviewer doesn't push him to specify in exactly what ways their standards are supposed to be higher. Since, for their TE stick, which is the only stick they've ever made that doesn't suck, they are sourcing parts from the same company as Hori does for its best sticks, the only ways in which Mad Catz could be setting their standards higher is in aesthetic design and ease of modding. Aesthetic design though was handled by Taito here, and whether it is superior to Hori or not is not something that can be objectively decided, so the only aspect left for them in which to "set their standards higher still" is in ease of modding. Which is what they did.

[Recap]

the only ways in which Mad Catz could be setting their standards higher is in aesthetic design and ease of modding.

Weight too. That's a key point and everybody uses to ignore it. I think I read the guy claiming the PCB in the TE is better quality too.

I really believe the TE, tastes aside, is a better controller than the RAP SA (I myself would buy one of those before a Hori model), and that Hori could have been doing it much better if it had found some competition there (the mere fact of still making RAP's with no professional buttons, leaving them for special, hard-to-find versions, is indeed quite insulting). But hey, RAP's are now what, 5-years-old? What have been doing Mad Catz all these years?

Aesthetic design though was handled by Taito here,

That's a point. Did they get the rights from Taito? I'm sure they didn't! What'd happen if these got distribution in Japanese territories?

[icycalm]

Re: the weight issue. I prefer heavier sticks as a matter of course. So if the RAPs are heavier than the TE -- which I think they are? -- the RAPs win for me.

As for buttons, since the buttons in the RAPs are easy to switch, I see no problem with the stock, cheaper RAPs having Hori buttons. Then you have the more expensive SA and SE versions with quality buttons. Seems like an even, fair deal to me.

Re: the design of the TE stick. I am sure Mad Catz has Taito's permission... I can't imagine them having overlooked this. It's not a matter of whether the stick gets released in Japan. Even if it doesn't, not getting permission would be illegal.

[Recap]

Re: the weight issue. I prefer heavier sticks as a matter of course.

That's not even a matter of preferences. Heavier = better.

So if the RAPs are heavier than the TE -- which I think they are? -

I believe they aren't, but don't quote me on that.

Re: the design of the TE stick. I am sure Mad Catz has Taito's permission... I can't imagine them having overlooked this. It's not a matter of whether the stick gets released in Japan. Even if it doesn't, not getting permission would be illegal

Yeah, but Taito wouldn't even notice in that case.

Given how these things work and Japanese's mentality, hardly Mad Catz approached Taito (Square-Enix) for this. I mean, they're annoucing it as "a replica of the official controller for the SFIV arcades" or something like that. They just saw themselves supported by that fallacious blurb probably invented by Capcom USA in the process of licensing SFIV and got going.

[jiji]

What kind of infringement would Taito be able to move against Mad Catz on? I could see them litigating if they had patented or trademarked the exact layout and color scheme of the Viewlix control panel, and if they indeed had a good reason to protect their use of that scheme. But I haven't often heard of lawsuits being brought because of similar control layouts and color schemes.

Most recent is litigation Nintendo brought over a Nyko controller, but this was due to their careless use of the "Nunchuck" name, already trademarked in this arena by Nintendo.

***

I tried to scour this thread for the news, so forgive me if it's been posted, but the HRAP EX and 3 are now available in the US, though Amazon ($130 and $100).

[icycalm]

http://www.hori.jp/products/ps2/controller/arcana2_st/

[bullethell]

Death Smiles Real Arcade Pro EX
Release Date: Apr 23, 2009
Manufacturer: Hori
Format: X360
Price: 14,800 ¥

[bullethell]

A few days after its release and Death Smiles Real Arcade Pro EX is already sold-out in many online import stores. So if you are really interested to importing a Hori arcade stick in the future, either buy it on its release date or even better preorder it.

Also two new Hori sticks on the way,

Blazblue Fighting Stick
Format: PS3
Release Date: Jun 25, 2009



Blazblue Fighting Stick
Format: X360
Release Date: Jun 25, 2009

[NFG]

A few days after its release and Death Smiles Real Arcade Pro EX is already sold-out in many online import stores.

It was an Amazon exclusive, 1 per person. My guess is any import stores who claimed to have some either went through extraordinary lengths to get some, or lied about ever having them. I got one for a friend, who was stoked to get such a rarity, but last I checked Amazon was taking orders for a second wave.

[icycalm]

Does anyone know what the best stick is for the Wii? Are there any RAPs for it? I have a copy of Tatsunoko on the way, so I think it's time I got a decent stick for this piece of shit pseudoconsole.

[Doctor Fugue]

I believe there are three choices.

1) Wii Fighting Stick made by Hori - Not as good as RAPs, but still an okay stick for the price (~60USD).

2) Neo Geo Stick 2 made by Exar - I haven't tried this. Also available for the PS3. Price is approximately 55USD.

3) Wii EXARSTICK made by Exar - Another cheap stick; available in two flavours (Tatsunoko vs. Capcom branding or blank). Also available for the PS3 as a King of Fighters XII branded stick. Costs around 65USD. Not that great; I would choose the Hori over this.

MadCatz made a mock-up design of their new Fight Stick (not the Tournament Stick) that had Tatsunoko vs. Capcom branding and showed it off at some convention but it does not exist in stores (and probably never will).

Not very good choices. Is it possible to hook up a GameCube stick?

[ronan]

Is it possible to hook up a GameCube stick?

Yes, it is. And reviews of this game confirm that it works, if that is in fact what you were asking.

If you already own a HRAP2, I guess the best would be to use an adapter like this one, this one or this one.

[Doctor Fugue]

Indeed, I was wondering if Tatsunoko vs. Capcom specifically could be played properly without button configuration or input lag problems through a GameCube stick or an adapter that mimics a GameCube controller's inputs. The reviews say yes, but I have not tried it myself.

[ronan]

It seems that some sticks are not compatible using a GameCube adapter.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=170325

But this thread should provide you enough information concerning compatibility:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=181187

[icycalm]

Very disappointing... And there are at least a few more games on the Wii which could use a good stick -- a couple of shooters by Starfish, Shiki III, MileStone's games, and a port of Accent Core. Perhaps there are more I am forgetting...

I guess I should start looking in the whole adaptor business. No way I am buying one of those cheap-ass sticks.


Edit: Oh yeah, the Takoron port as well.

[raphael]

I have had a very hard time finding a working PS2 to GameCube adaptor for my full Sanwa modded Mayflash PS2/PS3/PC Fighting Stick. But I found one that works with Tatsunoko vs. Capcom. I tested the adapter with many other PS2 Sticks (including HRAP 1 & 2) all worked.

It is the "GC Keyboard Adapter 2in1" from Tototek.
http://www.tototek.com/pio/main1/SUBMEN ... 2in1us.htm

All the other adaptors I tried did not work.

[Doctor Fugue]

MadCatz made a mock-up design of their new Fight Stick (not the Tournament Stick) that had Tatsunoko vs. Capcom branding and showed it off at some convention but it does not exist in stores (and probably never will).

A poor guess on my part. Sorry. It will be released.

http://www.madcatz.com/pressreleases/Tatsunoko_CES.pdf

[icycalm]

A review:

The buttons and stick use solderless connections, so it's a simple matter to buy your own buttons (or even joystick) to swap out. We used Lizard Lick when we modded the last set of fightsticks, and had a great experience with them. For $3 a button you can upgrade the stick for a slightly better feel, and $20 will get you a Sanwa joystick to slam in there. The built-in buttons aren't terrible, but you'll definitely feel the difference if you decide to put in better parts.

Also, if the lack of weight bothers you, it's a simple thing to grab some electrical tape and rolls of pennies or weights to give it more heft. Like the lawyer in Jurassic Park pointed out, if it's heavy, it's probably expensive. Value added!

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2 ... wesome.ars




It even looks pretty decent. I'll probably grab one.