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Can Cutscenes be Art?

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Unread postby icycalm » 19 Feb 2012 22:04

And there we go, I lost it:

icycalm wrote:lol I just noticed these:

Recap wrote:If you want to attempt to explain why real-time polygons, three-dimensional mechanics in a two-dimensional medium


As far as OUR EYES are concerned, EVERYTHING is "two-dimensional"; there's no material difference between a computer screen or a view of the (real?) Grand Canyon. Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trompe-l%27%C5%93il

And I mean, dude, you like belt-scrollers lol, which compared to 3D brawlers are unplayable, lol, precisely because they are supposed to be played with arcade sticks. I am even embarrassed at having to point these things out to you, man, but you keep giving me reasons to.


Recap wrote:and analog control pads or control systems based on non-gaming interfaces


You seriously think that there are such things as "gaming interfaces"? As opposed to what? Says who? Are you religious or something? You think when Moses came back from the mountain he brought back with him an arcade stick on a pedestal engraved by god with the words "GAMING INTERFACE"? I have news for you, Recap, ANYTHING CAN BECOME A GAMING INTERFACE AS LONG AS THE HUMAN BEINGS WHO MANUFACTURED IT DEEM IT TO BE SO. Arcade sticks are made of the same metal and plastic components as racing wheels, light guns and analog controllers. As long as the device is being used for a game IT IS A GAMING INTERFACE, just as the keyboard and mouse are in Civilization (the greatest strategy game ever, fyi).

And again, I feel pathetic even pointing these things out, man. Like BEING FORCED to point them out. This is supposed to be a FUCKING SERIOUS SITE ABOUT VIDEOGAMES, not some goddamn retard home! Get a grip on yourself for fuck's sake!


If we were in the same room I would have smacked him. A good fucking smack on the head with a sledgehammer is what this little dude needs to wake up and smell THE FUCKING UNIVERSE.
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Unread postby icycalm » 19 Feb 2012 22:33

He will trip out because he hates people talking down to him like that, never mind shouting at him. But WHEN YOU GIVE ME RETARDATIONS LIKE THAT, SHOUTING IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESERVE! PATIENCE HAS ITS FUCKING LIMITS FOR FUCKS SAKES! I AM A MAN NOT A GODDAMN SAINT! AND WHEN I SEE LITTLE RETARDED WEABOOS WITH THEIR LITTLE RETARDED TASTES PUTTING THEMSELVES FORWARD AS MASTER ART CRITICS, AND PRETENDING TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON SHIT THEIR LITTLE WEABOO BRAINS CAN'T EVEN FUCKING CONCEIVE, LET ALONE APPRECIATE AND EVALUATE, MY BLOOD NATURALLY STARTS TO BOIL! I MEAN FOR FUCK'S SAKES ALREADY! THE DUDE NEEDS A PSYCHIATRIST NOT FUCKING MORE VIDEOGAMES!

FAR CRY 2 IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A WORSE PLOT THAN FUCKING SUPER MARIO BROS! RETARDED CHILDISH EUROTRASH GAMES BETTER ART THAN VANQUISH OR OKAMI! YS BETTER MUSIC THAN HALO OR DEUS EX 3! I MEAN ENOUGH IS ENOUGH FOR FUCK'S SAKES!
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Unread postby icycalm » 19 Feb 2012 22:44

There's no getting around this fact: Recap's a weaboo, the best weaboo that's ever lived perhaps, but a weaboo nonetheless. Practically everything he says about things OUTSIDE of his little weaboo corner of the world STINKS of stuffy bedrooms and unwashed hair. The stench is in fact so overwhelming I'm gagging for breath here. I mean jesus goddamn christ, how can someone SIDESTEP life so completely? No wonder the mothers, priests and politicians blame videogames. And what a hypocrite I am being here, on the one hand enjoying all the best fruits of Recap's decision to spend his entire little life inside his bedroom, and on the other hand castigating him for doing so. How unreasonable even a genius like me can become, all the while fully realizing the unreasonableness of my behavior!
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Unread postby icycalm » 19 Feb 2012 22:54

But that's the thing, the realization does not occur "all the while" I am being "unreasonable", the realization comes at the end, once I am through with venting my frustration -- not at Recap's limitations -- but at my inability to fully comprehend them well ahead of time, and to accept them for what they are and make appropriate use of them. The problem, in other words, does not lie with Recap at all, but with my limited powers of comprehension, with Recap being merely a hapless victim of my (for him at least) inexplicable rage. When I am raging at him, therefore, I am really raging at no one other than myself.

And on that note, dear friends, I bid you goodnight and start heading home for a good night's (well-earned) rest.
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Unread postby icycalm » 21 Feb 2012 22:03

Didn't come online in the past couple of days, and now Recap's forum seems to be offline. Did anyone check what absurd pseudo-arguments he vomited in response to my latest posts? Part of me kind of wishes his forum will stay offline, and perhaps that his entire site might somehow disappear too so that I can forget I ever knew of or had anything to do with him. I finally completely psychoanalyzed him too, a little earlier today while shaving, and I've grown thoroughly disgusted with him. Would never have imagined that such a person existed, not in a million years. Basically, if the artfags are men-children who aspire to be adults, and try to appear to be so by miming and ludicrously aping them, Recap is a child who has not only decided to stay a child for the rest of his life, but who downright HATES adults and the entire adult world, and would love nothing more than to see it, and them, VANISH FROM EXISTENCE. Proof: he never talks about anything other than games, and when outside subjects are raised either ignores them, or quickly dismisses them as irrelevant and uninteresting. He actually told me once that he didn't like seeing philosophical essays on my site (the most valuable part of it!), and probably gets annoyed on simply seeing their very titles (there's no question of him having ACTUALLY READ ANY OF THEM, or even so much as SKIMMING them). In a discussion on Arcana Heart, a game which, as far as games featuring all-female casts go, is as innocent and chaste as they come, since all the girls are practically dressed like nuns, and only a single one has big boobs, and that one is A FUCKING ROBOT, he went as far as to say that the designers' sexual intent (which he hallucinated) was "disgusting". Now, assuming there even was such an intent at all, how the fuck can someone say that sexuality is "disgusting" if he doesn't hate mankind, and especially adults and adulthood? And then another time he gave me the classic pseudo-intellectual line that all movies today are shit and he doesn't enjoy watching any of them, or something along those lines. So he has effectively negated

1. Sexuality
2. Art
3. Philosophy

and I mean what else is there in life, apart from physical activity, which is of course the most important, but which apart from clicking the keys on his keyboard and twiddling his arcade sticks he clearly knows nothing about. And don't give me that shit about him being 36 years old and an architect or whatever -- even if I was presented with detailed surveillance evidence by the goddamn CIA, that Recap is married with six children and leads a very active, healthy, modern lifestyle, I WOULDN'T FUCKING BELIEVE A WORD OF IT. The STENCH from his bedroom is evident in every fucking word he's written outside of comparing 2D Japanese videogames between themselves.

So, in a way, he's even more sick than the artfags and pseudo-intellectuals. Because they, at least, ASPIRE after adulthood, so they obviously value and respect it, even though they are utterly incapable of attaining it. For Recap, on the other hand, there's no question of respect or aspiration: he downright HATES adults and everything that has to do with the adult world, and all his efforts, apart from whatever minimum amount of drudgery he has to endure in his professional life, if he even has any, are directed at immersing himself as much as possible in the little 2D cardboard cutout universes he loved as a child. The man is SICK, clinically sick, and requires professional attention. I mean, having understood that, it is even a bit cruel of me to goad him any further, or even to post all these things I am posting here, which he is bound to read at one point or another.

On the other hand, however, loons like him are experts at rationalizing away everyone else's behavior, so that their positions inside their pathetic little make-believe worlds will remain unaltered, no matter what others say or do to them, so I am not really concerned about him. I think it's much more important to analyze their behavior for the benefit of science and the instruction of future generations, which is what I just did here.

And I mean, at the end of the day, from a pure art theory and art criticism perspective, if we perhaps view Recap's stunting of himself as a worthwhile sacrifice for the benefit of art criticism and theory, the results are rather wretched. I mean, all this stunting, and my arcade culture essay is still 1,000 times better than his, or any of the other articles in which we touch on the same subjects. Even in the games in which he specializes, my reviews already are, or will be once I've written all of them, vastly superior to his. He couldn't reproduce the ideas of a single paragraph of my Kick Off essay if he spent the rest of his life trying, for example, not to mention the Street Fighter II, Super Shinobi, Super Mario World, Super Mario Kart, Zelda, Samurai Spirits, Giga Wing, etc. reviews that are coming. As for the more obscure games, it is true that given my huge range of interests I'd never get around to trying the majority of them, let alone review them, so there, indeed, is where his true usefulness lies. But people like Josh, zinger, Macaw et al. have explored and are still exploring many of these games, without stunting themselves to such a degree in the process. And then you have people like, say, Gaijin Punch, who more or less prefer the same kinds of games Recap prefers, but who don't go out of their way to SLANDER all other games the moment they are so much as spoken of in their presence. GP is a good-natured, if a little slow Texan who, if asked his opinion of modern 3D stuff will probably reply with something along the lines of "they are not my thing" or "they lack the spirit or soul of older games", or some such other basically stupid pseudo-intellectual line, but which is however far less harmful than Recap's downright MALIGNANT manufacturing of absurd pseudo-arguments for slandering everything that exists beyond his poster- and plastic-toy-stuffed bedroom.

Anyway, if he suffers so much from the adult world, the VERY LAST thing he needs is an internet connection. If nothing can be done for him in terms of medical attention, the least his parents could do for him, if they are still around, is cut out his internet and lock him inside his little room with all his TV toys, so that he can spend the rest of whatever years he has left in relative peace and happiness, and cease smearing his malignant lies and slander over any expression of power and joy of the adult human world.

Of course the good thing is that no one besides me pays or has ever paid any attention to him, so even if he stays on the internet he won't be harming anyone besides himself. And we'll get a few extra decent reviews of obscure Japanese 2D games to boot... So perhaps things are just fine as they are, I guess lol.

But in any case there you have Recap's psychoanalytic profile, stamped and certified by the world's greatest living psychoanalyst. An extremely unique case indeed!
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Unread postby icycalm » 21 Feb 2012 22:22

The worst thing, from my perspective, is that I finally realized that he hasn't understood a fucking word of any of all my essays, if he even bothered to read them at all. I guess I was being stupid assuming that, given how plainly and extensively I've analyzed everything, he would have grasped at least the main points. And here I am all these years later, being lectured about "different kinds" of immersion, "non-gaming interfaces", and videogames having -- oh the horror of it! -- "B-movie plots". Not to mention that, at the end of the day, everything is simply a "plain" matter of "aesthetics"; of "pleasing" some fuckface's "eyes", so there's no point in theory after all!

Not a word, for reals. He hasn't understood a word.
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Unread postby icycalm » 21 Feb 2012 22:49

I mean just look at that pathetic exchange between us, that the moment he realized he was cornered and utterly outmaneuvered and outgunned, he thought he'd scare me away by throwing the usual "abstract" and "aesthetics" bullshit at me! MOTHERFUCKER, MY ANCESTORS CREATED THESE GODDAMN WORDS, I FUCKING OWN THEM, WHILE YOU AND THE OTHER FAGS HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY EVEN FUCKING MEAN! In the mouth of a subhuman, basically, "abstract" means "incomprehensible" and aesthetics means "evaluation is impossible, so leave me the fuck alone". A double whammy of "abstract" and "aesthetics" in the scribblings of a subhuman, therefore, is nothing other than the last-ditch weapon, when all other avenues have been exhausted and led nowhere, and that fucking weaboo Recap had the nerve to throw that fucking shit AT ME, who understand and use these words as if I fucking invented them.

Not to mention earlier on, after he tried to demean masterpieces like Far Cry 2 by calling their plots "B-movie", and I called out his bullshit that the crappy Eurotrash games he praised had even shittier plots, he immediately saw the danger and tried furiously to pull out of the immersion discussion. For if he loved those goddamn games and their settings, it means he enjoyed being immersed in them, i.e. in their C- or even D- and F-movie plots. That's why he has to deny my immersion theory -- not with arguments, of course, but by inventing "different kinds" of immersion, pink immersion perhaps, or vanilla- and banana-flavored immersion, the fucking weaboo.

The little machinations taking place inside his stunted little brain throughout our exchange are basically painfully obvious to me. It's like I am seeing the algorithms of his pathetic little thought processes running right in front of my eyes, to the point where I felt embarrassed for his sake. And what is the point of conversation if he is going to overlook all my essays anyway, and pretend as if my theory didn't exist and wasn't unassailable -- while he doesn't even BOTHER trying to assail it! He basically professes to "respect" me while essentially NEGATING everything that's most valuable about my work. And I ask: of what use is such respect? Of what use is such a reader? He grabs the one or two things he can use from me, and ignores or slanders all the rest. Fuck Recap, man. "Intellectual justice" my ass. He is almost as conniving, cunning, and dishonest as the artfags. "A weakling is incapable of sincerity", to quote the master psychologist Larochefoucauld once more. And this is why, because sincerity is a form of sacrifice, a form of self-denial, and therefore only the strong are capable of it, those who have something to sacrifice. The weaboos and the artfags, the pseudo-academics and the journlolists, of course, have nothing. For what could Recap, for example, possibly have to sacrifice? The goddamn weaboo games he apotheosizes are all he has! May those weaboo games live forever then, and mankind be damned! And the whole future of art, of science, of man, be damned!
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Unread postby icycalm » 22 Feb 2012 21:37

The weaboo finally banned me. And this is all he managed to come up with as a response:

Weaboo wrote:So now you know, people: art is games, video-games are about "immersion" and not challenge, stage progression is better than one single stage because it mimics real life, keyboards were conceived as gaming interfaces.

Banned so that I can save some patience.



And here is my token demolition of his weaboo brain-vomit:

art is games


Not "games", videogames weaboo, videogames.

video-games are about "immersion" and not challenge


Exactly, as you would have realized if you had understood a single thing I've written on the subject. Challenge is merely a MEANS to immersion, to increased immersion -- if you play videogames for the challenge this could only mean, as I have explained at length in my scoring essay, that you are A GODDAMN CRIPPLE -- which you obviously are, so QED.

stage progression is better than one single stage because it mimics real life


Hey, look, he at least managed to reproduce one of my positions without mangling it.

keyboards were conceived as gaming interfaces.


But now he's back to putting words in my mouth. Not to mention his sarcasm is failed again, because as anyone who is not a weaboo knows IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT A THING IS ORIGINALLY CONCEIVED FOR, BUT ONLY WHETHER OR NOT IT FULFILLS THE TASK FOR WHICH ONE USES IT OR ADAPTS IT. Of course you wouldn't know that if you've spent your entire life inside your bedroom, so don't worry about us holding it against you.

Banned so that I can save some patience.


Which you will no doubt invest in harvesting the internet for news on worthless, shitty cellphone games to post about in your forum, simply because they feature one or two 2D screens, while ignoring masterpieces which move forward all your "favorite" genres (the quotation marks are because weaboos do not have favorite genres but JPEGS) and outright trashing and slandering them, all the while you self-righteously croon about your absurd, utterly inverted and unjust version of "intellectual justice". Have fun with it then.
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Unread postby icycalm » 25 Feb 2012 22:31

http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/topic/305 ... #post-2718

ilmdge wrote:In the United States, video games are a $10.5b industry employing almost half a million people. 64% of parents believe video games are a positive influence on their childrens' lives.

*record scratch* and yet this exactly is why video game production must be halted.

That's hundreds of thousands of people working to what end? This vast misdirection of labor is making kids more sedentary, so they sit on the couch languorously drinking mountain dew in lieu of more healthy alternatives. So that instead of a neighborhood game of basketball that can be played on any small street or soccer in any yard, we're amplifying childhood obesity and stunting social development. What's more, I'd contend that video games aren't actually more fun than these alternatives, they're just more convenient. Our technological progress ends up just setting society back, and making us less healthy, both physically and socially (and lack of social development leads to lack of empathy). Kids don't play outside anymore like they used to.


The logic of this extremely widely spread argument runs along the following lines:

"Stupid people regularly cut themselves using knives. Therefore, we should stop making knives."

Plato also condemned the drama along similar lines, and Schopenhauer and Baudrillard condemned practically everything.

Basically, once you reduce the subhumans' verbiage to a couple of easily grasped lines, you don't even have to say anything: they practically refute themselves.
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Unread postby Agentx » 26 Feb 2012 03:18

What's more, I'd contend that video games aren't actually more fun than these alternatives, they're just more convenient.


I'm so glad someone is up for telling us how we're not having as much fun as we think we are. I had no idea that convenience was such a bad thing either!
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Unread postby icycalm » 28 Feb 2012 23:15

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_May_Cry_(video_game)

Devil May Cry begins with Dante being attacked in his office by a mysterious woman named Trish. He impresses her by easily brushing off her assault, and tells her that he hunts demons in pursuit of those who killed his mother and brother.[5] She says the attack was a test, and that the demon emperor Mundus, whom Dante holds responsible for the deaths of his family, is planning a return.[6] The scene jumps to their arrival at an immense castle, whereupon Trish abruptly leaps and vanishes over a high wall.

Dante explores the castle and encounters the game's stock enemies, demonic marionettes. He also finds a new sword called Alastor, and battles the first boss, a giant spider/scorpion demon named Phantom. Dante wins the battle, but in what becomes a recurring theme, the defeated boss monster reappears a short time later in a corridor, forcing the player to choose a narrow escape or to fight in the tight confines. After further exploration and combat, Dante battles a demon named Nelo Angelo who impresses Dante with his confidence.[7] The demon wins, but suddenly flees upon seeing the half-amulet Dante wears. The demon attacks twice more in later missions, and is eventually revealed to be Dante's identical twin brother, Vergil. After Vergil's death, his amulet joins with his brother's half, and "Force Edge", the game's default sword which belonged to the twins' father, changes into its true form and becomes the Sparda sword.

When Dante next meets Trish, she betrays him and reveals that she too is working for Mundus, but when her life is endangered, Dante chooses to save her. Claiming he only did so because of her resemblance to his mother, he warns her to stay away.[8] Yet when he finally confronts Mundus, who is about to kill Trish, Dante again chooses to save her and is injured. Mundus tries to finish him off, but Trish takes the attack instead. This unleashes Dante's full power thus allowing him to take on the form of Sparda.[9] Dante and Mundus then battle on another plane of existence.

Dante is victorious, and leaves the amulet and sword with Trish's immobile body before departing.[10] Mundus returns and corners Dante, who is now back to his regular strength, before he can flee the island; Trish also returns and lends Dante her power. Dante defeats Mundus, who vows to return and rule the human world.[11] When Trish tries to apologize she begins to cry, and Dante tells her it means she has become human and not just a devil, because "devils never cry".[12] Dante and Trish escape on a plane as the island collapses. After the credits, it is revealed that Dante and Trish are working together as partners, and have renamed the shop "Devil Never Cry".


Granted that the plot is nothing special, but B-movie? I don't think so, and in the end the quality of the movie would depend on the direction, so we can't really tell just by reading it. Nevertheless, you are telling me there's a 2D action game with better plot than this?

As for his other pseudo-argument, about 3D controllers and 2D screens lol, I just thought up the perfect counter-example: professional flight simulators, which at this point are practically indistinguishable in functionality from the real thing. Perhaps airliners and jet planes should be controlled with arcade sticks, because the window the pilots are looking through is two-dimensional?

Recap hasn't got a leg to stand on, which makes sense since we've already seen that he's a cripple.
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Unread postby icycalm » 20 Mar 2012 22:49

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism

The Nazi government of Germany deemed modernism narcissistic and nonsensical, as well as "Jewish" and "Negro" (see Anti-semitism). The Nazis exhibited modernist paintings alongside works by the mentally ill in an exhibition entitled Degenerate Art.


You gotta love the Nazis. They had everything figured out.

Accusations of "formalism" could lead to the end of a career, or worse.


This is what we urgently need today, the "or worse".

In fact, modernism flourished mainly in consumer/capitalist societies, despite the fact that its proponents often rejected consumerism itself.


My conclusion in plain words, in a Wikipedia article.

And the proponents did not reject consumerism; they only appeared to be doing so, whereas in fact exalting consumerism more than anyone else. After all, the only reason they engaged in their shenanigans was in order to make money to buy stuff.
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Unread postby Agentx » 21 Mar 2012 03:40

So Modernism is "My work isn't awful, it's just new and free of all those annoying restrictions like needing talent!"? Then what is postmodernism?
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Unread postby icycalm » 24 Mar 2012 22:31

Modernism is Far Cry 2 and Grand Theft Auto III. Postmodernism will (hopefully) be Far Cry 3 and Grand Theft Auto V, at which point they will become modernism, get it? The scammers are merely misusing the terms, and if you want to know exactly how go to Wikipedia.
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Unread postby icycalm » 16 May 2012 00:58

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_of_Wagner

The Case of Wagner (Der Fall Wagner) is a German book by the philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, originally published in 1888. Subtitled "A Musician's Problem", it has also been known as The Wagner Case in English.

The book shows Nietzsche as a capable music-critic, and provides the setting for some of his further reflections on the nature of art and on its relationship to the future health of humanity.
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Unread postby icycalm » 18 May 2012 13:58

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_games_as_art

In 2012, Alex Kierkegaard claimed that games and anything else can be art, but only if they are good.[clarification needed] He also claimed that the question was of a type that was proven to be nonsensical by the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus written Ludwig Wittgenstein in 1921 and only existed due to the poor use of the English language. [16].


And then he cites Videogame Culture: Volume I, which was indeed published in 2012, but not the essay he is referring to, which has been superseded by the Genealogy.

It's not that that essay is WRONG. Everything in it is still correct. It's just that it reflects what I was thinking in two thousand fucking eight. So, indeed, ANYTHING can "be art" if it's good, but only going by the definition of art that "art is something that is good". Going by the definition of art that I give in my Genealogy, only A FEW things can be art: the ones that create an illusion.

As for the entire Wittgenstein point, that the question "Can games be art" is nonsensical, that is again correct, but only if YOU'VE FAILED TO DEFINE THE TERMS GAME AND ART. Which is what everyone in 2008 (and even now) are doing. They are not defining these terms and then they pretend to answer that question. So yes, Wittgenstein DESTROYS these people. But we no longer need him to do that because the question has been fully answered by me in the Genealogy.

So, if anyone is used to editing Wikipedia, perhaps you'd like to rewrite that passage. This would be a good idea since the only other people referenced in that article are Roger Ebert and these dudes:

At the 2010 Art History of Games conference, Michael Samyn and Auriea Harvey (founding members of indie studio Tale of Tales), argued in no uncertain terms that "games are not art" and that they are by and large "a waste of time."
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Unread postby Agentx » 18 May 2012 15:17

Calling games a waste of time is rich coming from the developers of The Graveyard. It wasn't a game, but it was a waste of time. Albeit a very short amount of time, I suppose.
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Unread postby icycalm » 25 May 2012 15:10

The first article referenced on that Wikipedia page:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/2713 ... _Cause.php

Funniest thing ever written on the subject of games. I dare anyone to find something funnier.
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Unread postby ingolfr » 25 May 2012 17:56

The comments deliver as well:

Rules are the backbone of interaction, it's what we can and cannot do when we interact. We cannot do everything, because we do not know what everything is, but we can always do more, and currently in video games, we do very little. Usually, it's just a lot of shooting, but it would be much more interesting to fondle the petals on a flower and see them slide off your fingers, especially with a fictional type of flower we've never seen before that's beautiful in its own way.
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Unread postby Worm » 25 May 2012 18:56

The slides from Tale of Tales' presentation are here: http://tale-of-tales.com/tales/OverGames.html

The real comedy starts a third of the way down.

I like this picture from the Art History of Games site, but probably not for the same reasons they do:

Image
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Unread postby Worm » 20 Jun 2012 16:27

Daphny wrote:It’s like when you listen to music you can be like "that’s this band" or you see a movie and you’re like "that’s this director" and those are all the best music and the best movies and stuff. And when you play a game, you play it and you’re like "this is by this author, and I can tell because I’ve played other games by this author" that’s a really wonderful feeling and it happens really rarely, especially with games that are made by focus groups and fucking 100 people – they have the guy that shades the polygons in something that you don’t even see – it’s just really fucking gross and I don’t like it.


http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06 ... interview/


icycalm wrote:The slow, the dense, the thick, the stupid, those lacking discernment and critical ability — but who at the same time wish to seem the opposite of this — in short, the pseudo-intellectuals — simply stand aghast in front of a work of such complexity that it required the combined efforts of three or four hundred individuals to produce — they stand aghast and blink. "These are way too many gods for us!", they cry. "The relationships and connections between them and the various aspects of the work are mind-bewildering!" "Who among them are we to worship?" "And if we don't know who to worship we can't make a big show out of SEEMING to worship!" "And if we can't put on this show then we can't CONVINCE OTHERS that we are INDEED worshipping, and in fact worshipping far more than they are!" "And if we can't do this we can't trick them into according us more respect than they do to genuine art lovers!" "So let's just go back to the primitive arts were things are much less complicated!" "And since we are too thick to figure out how to handle the advanced arts we are just going to have to slander and defame them, and claim that they are not arts!"


http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_the_ge ... art_games/
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Unread postby icycalm » 07 Aug 2012 23:54

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?t ... #msg769368

CharlieSheen wrote:a and b are actually same shit for subhumans are slaves are hipsters are pseudo-intellectuals are folks who pretend they like shit they don't really like cause they are weak they didn't grow up and all they do in their shitty lives is play games and so they seek meaning in games instead of seeking it in real life they wanna validate themselves for being worthy people cause conscience bothers them games must be more than what they are pleasure sucks pleasure is for kids all we do is have pleasure so we gotta make it more than pleasure put some messages in there they know they gotta do something with their life but still man getting a job is hard as fuck why not just remain a kid but an intelligent kid who plays intelligent games with messages


I wish I could write like that. Perhaps if I worked at it a little I might be able to.
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Unread postby icycalm » 13 Sep 2012 08:51

An article on the Economist reporting on scientific evidence that modern music has become simpler and more pedestrian, i.e. decadent.


http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/ ... ence-music

THE kids these days play their music too loud and it all sounds the same. Old fogies familiar with such sentiments will be happy to hear that maths bears them out. An analysis published in Scientific Reports by Joan Serrà of the Artificial Intelligence Research Institute in Barcelona and his colleagues has found that music has indeed become both more homogeneous and louder over the decades.

Dr Serrà began with the basic premise that music, like language, can evolve over time, often pulled in different directions by opposing forces. Popular music especially has always prized a degree of conformity—witness the enduring popularity of cover songs and remixes—while at the same time being obsessed with the new. To untangle these factors, Dr Serrà's team sifted through the Million Song Dataset, run jointly by Columbia University, in New York, and the Echo Nest, an American company, which contains beat-by-beat data on a million Western songs from a variety of popular genres. The researchers focussed on the primary musical qualities of pitch, timbre and loudness, which were available for nearly 0.5m songs released from 1955 to 2010.

They found that music today relies on the same chords as music from the 1950s. Nearly all melodies are composed of ten most popular chords. They follow a similar pattern to written texts, where the most common word occurs roughly twice as often as the second most common, three times as often as the third most common, and so on, a linguistic regularity known as Zipf's law. What has changed is how the chords are spliced into melodies. In the 1950s many of the less common chords would chime close to one another in the melodic progression. More recently, they have tended to be separated by the more pedestrian chords, leading to a loss of some of the more unusual transitions. Timbre, lent by instrument types and recording techniques, similarly shows signs of narrowing, after peaking in the mid-60s, a phenomenon Dr Serrà attributes to experimentation with electric-guitar sounds by Jimi Hendrix and the like.

What music lost in variety, it has gained in volume. Songs today are on average 9 decibels louder than half a century ago, confirming what industry types have long suspected: that record labels engage in a "loudness race" in order to catch radio listeners’ attention. Since digital audio formats max out at a certain decibel level, as the average loudness inches towards that ceiling, songs will lose dynamic range, becoming ever more uniform.

This homogeneity is not just jarring to melomaniacs. It might confuse the popular algorithms for identifying and recommending tracks, like those used by Spotify and other music services. Many of these rely on timbre measurements to sort songs into genres, for instance. Some musicians are bound to respond by confounding expectations with new sounds. Whether audiences wish to be confounded remains moot.


Note that the corrosive influence of Jimi Hendrix, and electronic instruments or techniques in general that he cites, does not prove that the electronic dimension is necessarily decadent -- only that those who have employed it have by and large failed to take advantage of the huge range of possibilities it opens up. I am convinced that if a similar study were conducted testing good heavy metal music apart from all the other genres, it would show that metal is the most complex and therefore healthier genre -- from a purely mechanical perspective, of course (it is also healthier aesthetically, but you cannot see that from the mathematics), while, again it goes without saying, being far less complex than classical music (mechanically again, because aesthetically I am of the opinion, and I am now certain Nietzsche would agree -- and I can back this up by citing him -- that it is inferior to metal).
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Unread postby icycalm » 13 Sep 2012 09:05

lol, I just involuntarily answered for myself, in the parenthesis, a passage from Nietzsche that has been troubling me for almost half a decade:

I wrote:(it is also healthier aesthetically, but you cannot see that from the mathematics)


Now read the following passage from The Gay Science, paying particular attention to the last few lines. I can't believe I finally solved this. There's like five or ten passages in Nietzsche that are still troubling me, and this was among the worst.

Nietzsche wrote:"Science" as a prejudice.—It follows from the laws of order of rank that scholars, insofar as they belong to the spiritual middle class, can never catch sight of the really great problems and question marks; moreover, their courage and their eyes simply do not reach that far—and above all, their needs which led them to become scholars in the first place, their inmost assumptions and desires that things might be such and such, their fears and hopes all come to rest and are satisfied too soon. Take, for example, that pedantic Englishman, Herbert Spencer. What makes him "enthuse" in his way and then leads him to draw a line of hope, a horizon of desirability—that eventual reconciliation of "egoism and altruism" about which he raves—almost nauseates the likes of us; a human race that adopted such Spencerian perspectives as its ultimate perspectives would seem to us worthy of contempt, of annihilation! But the mere fact that he had to experience as his highest hope something that to others appears and may appear only as a disgusting possibility poses a question mark that Spencer would have been incapable of foreseeing.

It is no different with the faith with which so many materialistic natural scientists rest content nowadays, the faith in a world that is supposed to have its equivalent and its measure in human thought and human valuations—a "world of truth" that can be mastered completely and forever with the aid of our square little reason. What? Do we really want to permit existence to be degraded for us like this—reduced to a mere exercise for a calculator and an indoor diversion for mathematicians? Above all, one should not wish to divest existence of its rich ambiguity: that is a dictate of good taste, gentlemen, the taste of reverence for everything that lies beyond your horizon. That the only justifiable interpretation of the world should be one in which you are justified because one can continue to work and do research scientifically in your sense (you really mean, mechanistically?)—an interpretation that permits counting, calculating, weighing, seeing, and touching, and nothing more—that is a crudity and naivete, assuming that it is not a mental illness, an idiocy.

Would it not be rather probable that, conversely, precisely the most superficial and external aspect of existence—what is most apparent, its skin and sensualization—would be grasped first—and might even be the only thing that allowed itself to be grasped? A "scientific" interpretation of the world, as you understand it, might therefore still be one of the most stupid of all possible interpretations of the world, meaning that it would be one of the poorest in meaning. This thought is intended for the ears and consciences of our mechanists who nowadays like to pass as philosophers and insist that mechanics is the doctrine of the first and last laws on which all existence must be based as on a ground floor. But an essentially mechanical world would be an essentially meaningless world. Assuming that one estimated the value of a piece of music according to how much of it could be counted, calculated, and expressed in formulas: how absurd would such a "scientific" estimation of music be! What would one have comprehended, understood, grasped of it? Nothing, really nothing of what is "music" in it!
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Unread postby icycalm » 13 Sep 2012 09:23

This basically says -- or at least the aspect of it that concerns us in connection with the subject of this thread -- the same thing I say in my Genealogy: that complexity (which can be measured mathematically) is only a MEANS of immersion (which cannot be measured mathematically, because it is derived from both mechanics and aesthetics) and not the end. An extremely complex videogame, or piece of music, or any other work of art, which however is inferior aesthetically (in forum dolt language: has uglier grafix) can still be inferior overall despite the increased complexity. And you cannot make the aesthetic judgement by resorting to formulas/objectivity (on which everyone can agree, because it's math and they have no choice); you have to go with your instincts, and these will necessarily clash with those of other lifeforms that are not sufficiently genetically and culturally related to you (and therefore have different instincts). It is from this fact that the "rich ambiguity" of existence that Nietzsche talks about stems. If we lived in an "objective", "mechanistic" world in which everyone could agree because THEY'D HAVE NO CHOICE (this is what objectivity is), the world would be MEANINGLESS because, due to the universal agreement, no one would NEED to do anything, no one would even be able to move, there would be no flux, and hence no sensation, no pleasure, no displeasure, nothing. A dead existence, a non-existence, a nihilistic fucking void.

The above will find its way into Orgy of the Will in one form or another, so consider this a sneak preview.
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