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Unread postby Tain » 23 Jan 2012 05:39

Turns out the "comedy" part was just an assumption.

http://www.facebook.com/IndieGameTheMov ... 8818109093

HBO has optioned IGTM for the basis of a (fictional) series. It is NOT a comedy. It is NOT a sitcom.

The information came out and someone filled in a blank, and this is why: The (potential) show is being developed within the 1/2 hour department within HBO.

We are told that 1/2 hr department is often shorthanded ‘comedy department’. Full hour dept = ‘drama department’. That is the basis of the ‘Comedy’ label.
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Unread postby SriK » 23 Jan 2012 05:52

agentx wrote:If anything, I'd be curious to see it, if only to see what HBO saw in it as series potential and why they bothered making it in the first place.


Yeah, I really can't see how HBO thought this was a good idea at all. I can't even see it being profitable for them, given the small target demographic (the only people who'd watch this seriously would be people already inside the "indie scene.") And on top of that a "drama" (in reality, probably even more comedy, given the subject matter) about making "indie" games would most likely be pretty boring, unless they exaggerated the fuck out of it and had it so Bobby Kotick was literally sending armies of hitmen and robots to brainwash developers into making games for him or something.

Meanwhile, no news about that Masters of Doom movie since 2005.
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Unread postby David » 24 Jan 2012 15:50

Are Mojang still indie developers? Since Minecraft’s inception years ago, Notch’s block builder has sold a price-tag-defeating 4,733,940 copies and been awarded 96% in our Minecraft review. An Xbox 360 port is incoming, and the touchy-feely Android/iOS ports are already available. They’re even making Minecraft LEGO.

“These days it’s become hip to pay for indie games. That’s partly down to people charging for it, like with the Humble Indie Bundle, and partly because of Steam doing awesome stuff,” Notch told PC Gamer last week.

“I don’t think [Mojang] are indie in the sense of how I used to work any more, because we have a payroll to worry about and we need to do stuff to ensure the company lasts,” he continued.

“We have other stuff which influences what we do other than trying to focus on the games. We make sure me and Jacob are only focusing on game development so the founders are still developing. But as a company, I don’t think we are indie in the sense that I used to mean it. But in the other sense of indie – as in we make games we want to play without having any external dependencies – then yeah, we’re indie.”

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/01/23/notch ... die-games/
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Unread postby Agentx » 25 Jan 2012 07:02

How fortunate the definition of "indie" is so flexible. Or are there multiple types of "indie" where it can still be used as a blanket term? Either way how much more do people need to see that ultimately as its used now it is worse than useless?

Still... I'm less bothered by what constitutes an "indie" developer than an "indie" or "indie style" game. I'm tired of sites that treat it as a genre of game, when surely even when being generous it can never be more than a claimed attribute of the developers either by themselves or through proclamation of the "indie" community. It tells you nothing about a game.
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Unread postby icycalm » 10 Feb 2012 21:07

http://culture.vg/forum/topic?f=3&t=3828

Can anyone see why this funding scheme is in some respects even MORE restrictive (i.e. less independent) than getting advance funding from a third-party publisher, at least in the long run? It's the same thing with Minecraft.
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Unread postby icycalm » 18 Feb 2012 20:38

http://postback.geedorah.com/foros/view ... 711#p14711

icycalm wrote:It really seems impossible to stop these people. And they are churning out this shit at such a rate, that in order to keep trashing them we'd have to turn reviewing "indie" trash into a full-time job. It really boggles the mind how much time, money and effort is going into this by-now gigantic 2D "indie" scene, the long term result of which is that not a single one of these games, not a single title that comes out of this scene, will ever be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with the great games of the past (or even with mediocre ones!), never mind surpass them. And everyone else in the industry besides us is doing their utmost to make sure that this will never change.


Recap wrote:It just mirrors the official, professional market in that regard, doesn't it? And wait a couple of years onwards.



(Nótese que Icycalm usa "indie" para referirse a la obra extraoficial principalmente occidental --o a la que se autodenomina de esta manera--, y no la nipona.)


icycalm wrote:I don't see a close equivalence with the professional market. There are some similarities (the general lack of difficulty and dumbing down, for example), but you still get stuff like Senjou no Valkyria, Operation Darkness, Far Cry 2, Vanquish and Bayonetta that move things forward. In the "indie" market, there seems to be no moving forward whatsoever.

The closest parallel I can see, is with the European (mainly British) home computer scene in the 80's and early '90s (and specifically the action genres). Countless games that are practically unplayable now -- though still better than the "indie" trash (except if my memory is being too kind on the former...)


http://postback.geedorah.com/foros/view ... hp?id=1643

Recap wrote:I was talking in a general sense -- we don't get new amateur pieces which can touch the quality of the great games of the past much like we don't get new professional pieces which can do that, either. And the examples you gave seem to confirm it, even if the comparison there has to be much more... abstract.

I don't think you're being too kind on the European action games for the 8-bit/16-bit computers. They were horrid from the mechanics perspective (many of them even had to be played with a keyboard, so what could you expect), but they were (many times, though just in the early days) conceptually almost as great as the Japanese arcades they were trying to mimic and got amazing settings and scenography, making of any random theme something cool to experience. This personality just can't be found in the modern amateur scene from the West since they don't put even half the work into it nor have the talent, to begin with.


icycalm wrote:
Recap wrote:I was talking in a general sense -- we don't get new amateur pieces which can touch the quality of the great games of the past much like we don't get new professional pieces which can do that, either.


To stay with the genres that you like, Operation Darkness is among the best SRPGs I've ever played, and in many respects trounces even the better Fire Emblems and Langrissers, and it's a 2007 game on the Xbox 360. Goku Makaimura is probably the best in the series, at least mechanically, and that Hard Corps game seems to be on the same level. It's true that in the 2D action genres the new stuff usually can't compare, but those are not all the genres that exist. Progress now happens in the 3D genres, for the same reason that painting has stagnated and movies and videogames is where the action's at.

Recap wrote:And the examples you gave seem to confirm it, even if the comparison there has to be much more... abstract.


They do nothing of the sort. They are some of the best videogames I've ever played, Recap, and I'll explain why at length in my upcoming reviews.

But at least we can agree on the Western amateur scene, which actually isn't amateur at all, but whatever. I guess we have to call them something (I vote for "bunglers).


Continued here: http://culture.vg/forum/topic?p=17386#p17386
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Unread postby qweasdzse » 09 Mar 2012 20:12

Phil Fish from Indie Game: The Movie has something to say:

But when he asked what the panel thought of modern Japanese video games, Phil Fish immediately replied “your games just suck” – a comment that sparked an audible reaction from the crowd, though some were cheering.


https://www.develop-online.net/news/400 ... games-suck

Well if Japanese games like Goku Makaimura suck that would explain why all the "indie" devs think their 2D platformers are so great.
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Unread postby icycalm » 13 Mar 2012 13:45

But what happened to the subjectivity of experience, the impossibility of value judgement, and the equality of artworks? I think the indie dudes need to sit down and get their stories straight.
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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Apr 2012 17:32

Image

And the corrected captions:

What "indie" game developers think old games looked like.

What old games actually looked like.
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Unread postby icycalm » 22 May 2012 20:09

http://forums.selectbutton.net/viewtopi ... 17#1109517

Youpi wrote:The thing that really annoys me is retro art that uses restrictions that have no basis in history. Sprites from an imaginary generation between the NES and SNES with no palette limitations, "Chiptune" .ogg music using instruments of the NES on an unlimited amount of channels with compositions capturing none of its sound, and generic SFXR presets playing with no sound channel stealing.

And technologies that the consoles couldn't handle. Stuff like chipmunk physics. And typography trying too hard to be retro.

Anything else I don't mind, but this archetype feels so cynical and lazy.



http://forums.selectbutton.net/viewtopi ... 47#1109547

Youpi wrote:It's about the instances that just scream "I'm gonna embrace some pretend hardware constraints" but never bother to define what those constraints are. Many things that would fly in older games or on the NDS will be perceived as cheating. Cheating is often cool, but not in the context of self-imposed rules.
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Unread postby Agentx » 25 May 2012 11:01

Coming to iTunes and Steam?!: Indie Game: The Movie.

Oh boy. I don't even think a film about the development of good games by talented developers would be all that interesting in the end. I'd be hard pressed to think of reasons why anyone should care about the "emotional journey" of "indie" developers Edmund McMillan, Phil Fish or Jonathan Blow. I wonder if Edmund and Phil being assholes on social media sites is part of that journey.
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Unread postby mothmanspirit » 20 Sep 2012 03:34

I saw the trailer of "Indie" Game: The Movie. Some funny parts:
- Super Meat Boy guy saying that coding financially-succesful videogames in his bedroom is like being in a concentration camp.

- Fez guy saying that if Fez doesn't sell well, he's never making videogames again!

- The baby music playing throughout the entire thing. I feel like I should be watching cute animals running around, not a bunch of neckbearded hipsters.

I also watched about twenty minutes of the actual movie. There was a very funny part where it shows this amazing, sweeping view of this lively outer-space metropolis from Mass Effect 3, then one of the "indie" guys goes, "Modern games are shit!" and then it cuts to an absurdly zoomed-in view of the Fez sprite bopping around.
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Unread postby icycalm » 14 Oct 2012 18:06

I can't believe Strania goes for 800MSP and the fucking Spelunky remake for 1,200. Talk about an unwarranted sense of self-importance! And they have the nerve to call G.rev a "corporashun" and Derek Yu an "indie". My god these people. How much further could their lies and shamelessness go?
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Unread postby ingolfr » 19 Nov 2012 02:17

Jonathan Blow: How Mainstream Devs Are Getting It Wrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1Fg76c4Zfg

I wasn't sure whether to put the video here or in the lolz thread.
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Unread postby icycalm » 20 Nov 2012 06:43

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BXtgW5oXrY

This entire "indie" culture just doesn't get it. SELF-REFERENCIAL ELEMENTS KILL IMMERSION. They think they are being smart and cool and hip and "old school" when they MAKE FUN OF THE VERY GENRE THEY ARE TRYING TO EMULATE in their goddamn trailer. "Disgusting" Aliens. "Super Serious" Characters. "You know how this is going to end." They are talking about their game in its goddamn trailer as if they are posting about it on some message board! HOW MUCH MORE FUCKING STUPID CAN YOU GET! YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO TAKE YOUR FUCKING GAMEWORLD MORE SERIOUS THAN THE REAL ONE! YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO TAKE YOUR FUCKING CONVENTIONS FOR REALITY! LOOK AT HOW SERIOUS THE JAPANESE TAKE EVEN THE DUMBEST OF THEIR SETTINGS IN THEIR TRAILERS! IF THE GAME WAS BAD TO BEGIN WITH, YOU ARE UTTERLY DESTROYING EVERY LAST CHANCE THERE IS THAT ANYONE EXCEPT YOUR OWN ASININE CIRCLEJERK WILL EVER TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. And this seriousness INCLUDES making fun of the genre's conventions later on message boards. But it's the PLAYERS who are supposed to be taking the piss this way NOT THE GODDAMN DEVELOPERS, and certainly not IN THE GODDAMN GAME'S TRAILER.

There really is no hope for them. With the best will in the world to help them, I am utterly powerless to do so. And it's especially a shame in this case, because the goddamn game looks actually cool. And almost as pretty (barring illustration work, of course, as always) as Sine Mora. Which is saying a goddamn lot!
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Unread postby icycalm » 09 Dec 2012 22:48

Street Fighter X Mega Man, developed by some aspie who has nothing better to do with his time than butcher old videogames, and published by some interns at some shitty Capcom subsidiary company:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61-OMrOxyso
http://worthplaying.com/article/2012/12/9/news/87737/

Nothing, absolutely nothing made by so-called fans has ever had any value in it, and has indeed always been nothing less than an extreme vulgarization of the original works. Basically, in the pre-internet times, this sort of ugliness was confined to the "fan art" pages of magazines -- one or two pages a month at most -- but with the internet and game-making tools available today it's all around us. The day is approaching when there be will so much "fan"-made rubbish online that the original works may well become utterly swamped and forgotten.
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Unread postby icycalm » 09 Dec 2012 22:53

And note that shite like Super Meat Boy falls in the exact same category, the only difference being that the Meat fags didn't have the nerve to plaster Mario's mug all over their rubbish. Plus they wanted the fame and money that comes from being "original". But the game is still a vulgarization of WHAT THEY THOUGHT Super Mario World played like, and more new gamers have played that than the original.
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Unread postby icycalm » 03 Jan 2013 00:17

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph ... ine.76989/

Humanity has risen! wrote:In this thread, post examples of indie games that exemplify everything that we despise about them. Including, but not limited to the following:

-An art style purposing to imitate 8 or 16 bit consoles or older computers
-Made in Flash or with an art style indistinguishable from Flash
-Overbearing "chiptune" music
-Cartoon characters who behave in unbelievably stupid ways, or like Teletubbies on speed
-Cartoon characters that are too zany
-Cartoon characters with stupid gimmicks
-Cartoon characters designed in otherwise unbelievably stupid ways
-Tries too hard to be funny
-An art style that tries too hard to look "artistic"
-An art style that tries too hard to woo the hipster crowd
-Meta game jokes used in any other way than sparingly
-Uses gameplay gimmicks

And the worst sin of all

-No decent, non-gimmicky gameplay to back it all up

Imagine my disappointment when I looked at the latest game added to GOG's library

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/edna_har ... _new_eyes/

Image

I don't even need to add a single world to convey that it is the incarnation of every single point listed above.



http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph ... st-2318877

Admiral jimbob wrote:That's something that does get me about indies. Their rise - which I think is overall a good thing - has coincided with a huge decline of imaginative mods. Even around the early days of Half-Life 2, we had Dystopia, The Hidden, plenty of others, all with very active player bases. NWN had a huge range of campaigns and modules twice the size of the official campaign. Half-Life 1 speaks for itself and the Morrowind modding scene was a thriving, varied place with real talent and ingenuity. Now, SP games just have more and more ludicrous porn mods and fanfic companions, multiplayer mods are deserted, sparse and amateurish, and the people who used to save these scenes have moved on to making shitty indie fare.

It's not as black and white as all that, but the link never really occurred to me. Sad state of affairs. Can't blame people for wanting to make money off their work, I suppose.
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Unread postby Some guy » 31 Mar 2013 17:49

Game designer Jason Rohrer designs a game meant to be played 2,000 years from now, hides it in desert: http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/28/415788 ... layed-2000

Micahel McWhertor wrote:The designer of Passage, The Castle Doctrine and Diamond Trust of London, Jason Rohrer, has developed a game designed to be played by people he'll never know. Rohrer hasn't played it himself, he says, and has buried the game — designed to survive thousands of years — in the Nevada desert, making it likely that no one will ever play it.

It's called A Game for Someone. The game was inspired by ancient board games like Mancala, as well as the architects and builders who, over hundreds of years, constructed religious cathedrals that they themselves would never set foot in, never see completed in their lifetimes.

"I wanted to make a game that is not for right now, that I will never play," Rohrer said, "and nobody now living would ever play."

Rohrer's A Game for Someone was presented at the 10th (and final) Game Design Challenge at GDC. This year's challenge was themed "Humanity's Last Game." While designers like Will Wright, Jenova Chen and Harvey Smith typically bring fleshed out game design ideas to the annual challenge, Rohrer took things a step further by actually manufacturing his game and detailing the process behind it today.

Rohrer's interpretation of the theme was to craft a game that would never be played by his colleagues and friends, but by some unknown person in the far future.

To accomplish that, Rohrer first built the game in computer form, designing a set of rules that would be playtested not by a human, but by an artificial intelligence. He said he plugged the game's rules into a "black box," letting the AI find imbalances, iterating new rules and repeating. Rohrer showed the video game version of his board game onscreen, but obscured key portions of the board game's layout, so no one in attendance could reverse engineer its mechanics.

Then he set about manufacturing it. Rattling off a list of board game materials that would be unlikely to last the intended passage of time (wood, cardboard, aluminum, glass), Rohrer ultimately decided to make the game from a resilient metal. He machined the 18-inch by 18-inch game board and the pieces future players will use out of 30 pounds of titanium.

Rohrer laid out the game's rules diagrammatically on three pages of archival, acid-free paper, hermetically sealed them inside a Pyrex glass tube — which were then housed inside a titanium baton — and set about burying them in the earth.

The game is now embedded somewhere in the Nevada desert. Rohrer's not exactly sure where, as he plotted out available public land far enough away from roads and populated areas, hoping to find a suitable, desolate location to hide the game. He buried it in the desert himself, he said, turned around and walked away from the game's indistinguishable resting place.

He never showed the full board game, its pieces or its rules during his presentation. No one in attendance is aware of how it plays.

But Rohrer does have the precise GPS location to help find A Game for Someone.

Prior to Rohrer's talk, a few hundred envelopes were placed on the seats in the room. Printed on the envelope: "Please do not open yet." After Rohrer described his game, he asked attendees to open their envelopes. Inside each one is a piece of paper with 900 sets of GPS coordinates. In total, Rohrer gave the audience more than 1 million unique GPS coordinates. He estimates that if one person visits a GPS location each day with a metal detector, the game will be unearthed sometime within the next million days — a little over 2,700 years.

While Rohrer may have intended audience members to hunt down his board game treasure individually, the sheets of GPS coordinates were collected by GDC volunteers at the door in an attempt to collate the data, hopefully leading to the game's earlier discovery.

Jason Rohrer's A Game for Someone won this year's Game Design Challenge, purportedly the last one ever, based on audience voting.
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Unread postby icycalm » 27 Jul 2013 18:42

Continued from here: http://culture.vg/forum/topic?p=21108#p21108

lemec wrote:I believe in being an entirely self-sufficient developer


This, by the way, is code for "no self-respecting company would hire me and no one wants to collaborate with me". Just sayin'.
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Unread postby icycalm » 28 Jul 2013 18:10

This is more shit-developer code, by the way:

lemec wrote:Instead, I want to deal with a game's rules and tools. I'm interested almost entirely with the goals the player is trying to achieve, the limitations the player must deal with, and the possibilities that the tools and interface provide the player to get those jobs done.


Whenever you hear someone say that games are about solving problems, etc., you know that you are talking to an internet-head who spends all his time posturing about videogames on message boards. The toughest problems ever seen in a videogame are, by real-world standards, for children, if not for downright retards. If I want to solve problems I'll grab a math textbook, not some fucking asinine puzzle-platformer made on Game Maker by some imbecile. This is what real problems look like:

http://www-pub.iaea.org/mtcd/publicatio ... ode293.htm

And yes, that's my name up there.

So if you find videogame problems challenging you are RETARDED, and should be in an INSTITUTION being TAKEN CARE OF. It's just another ruse to discredit real games, because it's a million times easier to make some shitty puzzler ripoff on Game Maker than Far Cry 4. So the only real problem in the videogame world is you, and the solution is a shotgun blast to your ugly face. (A message which is also very eloquently conveyed in plenty of videogames, by the way, including the Far Cry series.)
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Jul 2013 15:26

The funniest thing of all though is that it is precisely the "problems/tools/solutions" fuckheads who make the simplest games. I mean, if you are sooooo into problems and solutions, why are you not making the next Europa Universalis? They spew all this verbal diarrhea about "problems" and "solutions", and then they make an inferior Super Mario clone lol. LOOK THE PROBLEM IS HOW TO JUMP ON THIS GOOMBA-RIPOFF'S HEAD, AND THE SOLUTION IS TO PRESS THE JUMP BUTTON!

Fuckheads.
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Jul 2013 21:03

Take some time to consider the gross absurdity of this paragraph:

lemec wrote:I work with Game Maker Studio because developing engines does not interest me. I don't care to fight with sound libraries and sprite libraries and controller libraries. Instead, I want to deal with a game's rules and tools. I'm interested almost entirely with the goals the player is trying to achieve, the limitations the player must deal with, and the possibilities that the tools and interface provide the player to get those jobs done.


Let's take it line by line:

lemec wrote:I work with Game Maker Studio because developing engines does not interest me.


But the toughest, most intractable problems in game design happen at the engine development stage. The prolems faced, and solved, by the Unreal Engine 4 team on any given day are bigger and harder than the problems solved by every "indie" fuckhead ever put together. That's why developing the Unreal Engine 4 took years, millions, and hundreds of highly skilled professionals at the top of their game, whereas developing a laughable abortion like any of your "games" takes a single talentless incompetent fuckhead like you.

lemec wrote:I don't care to fight with sound libraries and sprite libraries and controller libraries.


We know. You only care to appropriate the work of people who have done so while failing to acknowledge this and even denigrating and deprecating the value of their hard work.

lemec wrote:Instead, I want to deal with a game's rules and tools.


... whose possibilities have already been delineated AT THE ENGINE STAGE. OTHERWISE WE'D STILL BE MAKING GAMES ON THE PONG ENGINE, FUCKHEAD!

lemec wrote:I'm interested almost entirely with the goals the player is trying to achieve, the limitations the player must deal with, and the possibilities that the tools and interface provide the player to get those jobs done.


All of which, as stated above, depend on the POWER of the engine you are using. And guess what: you are using the WEAKEST, SHITTIEST engine available on the market today. And you are failing at fully exploiting EVEN THAT.

In short, FAILURE, FAILURE, FAILURE, and again FAILURE. And finally some posing to convince yourself and everyone else that you are not failing.

Welcome to your life.
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Jul 2013 21:12

B- B- B- BUT I MYSELF SELF-TAUGHT MY OWN SELF ON MY OWN...

Fuck off.
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Jul 2013 21:15

In short, the most important thing in game design is THE HARDWARE (because the possibilities of the engine depend on it).

The second most important thing is THE ENGINE (because the possibilities of the game depend on it).

And only THEN can we start talking about "game design". Only once you have the most powerful hardware and the most powerful engine, can you start thinking about making THE MOST POWERFUL GAME. Anything else is fagotry. And if you are having trouble understanding why the hardware and the engine ARE PART OF GAME DESIGN, and indeed the most important parts, read The Simulacrum is True again. There's a paragraph in there where I explain it.
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