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Unread postby icycalm » 30 Jul 2007 23:32

Macaw wrote:Do you really think people would walk in, play a game once, and then leave the arcade because they 'aren't allowed to play again' ??


Not because they are not allowed to play again, but perhaps because other players might look down on them for doing so.

I know, it doesn't make sense, since the only way to get better is to play as much as you can -- and how could someone look down on you for trying to improve? -- but since I explained so many "alien" concepts in the article (alien, at least, to those who haven't been exposed to real arcades), I guess it's understandable that a question such as this would pop up. Whatever, it's no big deal.

One thing I'll say though is that sometimes, when I know people are waiting behind me, I pretend not to see them and just start over after I lose. I did this a lot with Espgaluda II, for example -- especially at first -- because I just couldn't bear having to wait in line for hours at a time just to play a single fucking credit. And no one has so far managed to summon up the courage to come up and reproach me, though I can ocassionally hear people fuming in the background. Or they loudly slap down their credit on the cab in a show of annoyance after I decide I've had enough of the game and get up to leave.

But hey, whatever. The Japanese expect foreigners to be impolite. I'd rather not disappoint them.
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Unread postby alpha5099 » 01 Aug 2007 05:40

Macaw wrote:
alpha5099 wrote:Perhaps in Japan this one credit philosophy was so deeply ingrained that even something as simple as playing another game was frowned upon.


Do you really think people would walk in, play a game once, and then leave the arcade because they 'aren't allowed to play again' ??

Playing a game multiple times and playing a game with a single credit are totally different things.


I'm sorry that my idea was so stupid.

No, what I expected was that a lot of people would get up, after losing, and go to another machine. It's an arcade, there's plenty of stuff to play. And unless you're super hardcore, you're probably not going to play one game exclusively. I also expected that some people going to arcades would probably do so as a quick stop to and from work/school, and thus might just play one or two games. If the arcade isn't out of the way, popping in for a single game seems less unreasonable. Especially if you're good at the game, in which case that one game might last a while.
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Unread postby icycalm » 01 Aug 2007 13:57

alpha5099 wrote:No, what I expected was that a lot of people would get up, after losing, and go to another machine. It's an arcade, there's plenty of stuff to play. And unless you're super hardcore, you're probably not going to play one game exclusively.


Actually, pretty much everyone in Japanese arcades concentrates on one or two games at a time.

But then again pretty much everyone in Japanese arcades is hardcore...

alpha5099 wrote:Especially if you're good at the game, in which case that one game might last a while.


Yes, but the only way to get good at a game in the first place is to play that game pretty much exclusively. And since for the first couple dozen credits you will be losing pretty quickly, it's only natural to want to sit down and play a bunch of credits at a time.

alpha5099 wrote:I'm sorry that my idea was so stupid.


Don't sweat it, man -- there is a big difference between ignorance and stupidity. If you want to see what real stupidity looks like, check this:

http://forums.selectbutton.net/viewtopic.php?t=6266
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Unread postby lock » 01 Aug 2007 20:16

Hi Icy!

I haven't replied before in this thread because I wanted to do a spanish tranlation first, but it's taking me more time than I expected! I'm on vacation right now, so hopefully will be ready before weekend.

About the article, I've really enjoyed it as much as watching a good movie. When you watch a movie and it's running to the end you fell a lttle bit bad becouse you know the entertaiment will get over soon. The same think happened to me when I was scrolling down the possition bar almost down.

I specially enjoyed the travel to the HEY arcade, you really make me fell like I was there again. By the way, I came back to Japan the last chistmas, and this time I played, and enjoyed a lot.

So now you keep me waiting for a new article :)

About the 1CC philosophy, let me say that I used to be a hardcore arcade player when I was younger, so sometimes I played console games like arcade games. For example, I tried to beat Resident Evil without saving! XD Finally I gived up in my try and I beated the game with just two saves. I remember somepeople talking so cheap because they beated the game in a day, so I think I can say proudly that I enjoyed the game the two weeks I needed to beat it.

I have to recognize, thought, that lately I became a little bit lazy with the 1CC philosophy. I think I'm getting older :cry:

By the way, it's pretty funny to read the selectbutton guys suspeting that you haven't been in HEY lol
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Unread postby Molloy » 01 Aug 2007 20:26

icycalm wrote:Don't sweat it, man -- there is a big difference between ignorance and stupidity. If you want to see what real stupidity looks like, check this:

http://forums.selectbutton.net/viewtopic.php?t=6266


Ain't that the truth. The ironic thing is out of the tens of games forums I've frequented over the years the least hostile one is run by Stuart Campbell. And he's been banned from pretty much every forum he ever registered to.
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Unread postby icycalm » 02 Aug 2007 02:54

lock wrote:I haven't replied before in this thread because I wanted to do a spanish tranlation first, but it's taking me more time than I expected! I'm on vacation right now, so hopefully will be ready before weekend.


Ha, that's awesome, thanks! Now all I need is a Japanese translation and I could go linking it all around the Japanese internet. That'd be fucking cool.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the article so much. One of the reasons I wrote it was nostalgia... I miss Japan quite a lot right now. Spending an hour a day in the arcades used to be part of my life, and now that it's gone... man, it sure sucks.

lock wrote:I have to recognize, thought, that lately I became a little bit lazy with the 1CC philosophy. I think I'm getting older :cry:


Well, the times when we could sit around and play games all day are gone, but you can always pick a couple of great games and concentrate on those. I could pick a single Cave shooter and just play it every day for a whole year if I didn't have this site to update...

Molloy wrote:The ironic thing is out of the tens of games forums I've frequented over the years the least hostile one is run by Stuart Campbell. And he's been banned from pretty much every forum he ever registered to.


Yeah, I have a lot of respect for Campbell. He has his faults (his STG reviews are quite bad because he doesn't play these games enough to figure out their system), but he's a good writer, he loves games, and he's been around for ages. Just the fact that he worked on CVG with Julian Rignall is enough to earn him mad respect from me, basically.
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Unread postby lock » 02 Aug 2007 19:45

icycalm wrote:
lock wrote:I haven't replied before in this thread because I wanted to do a spanish tranlation first, but it's taking me more time than I expected! I'm on vacation right now, so hopefully will be ready before weekend.


Ha, that's awesome, thanks! Now all I need is a Japanese translation and I could go linking it all around the Japanese internet. That'd be fucking cool.


Are you asking me to make a japanese translation?
You know, in the same way that time when you said me "there is a nice view from that coffeshop, but I have no cash right now" XDDDD

I can consider it. But we need a real japanese guy to correct it. Maybe Shintaro could help?

By the way, I've posted the spanish translation this afternoon. Here's the link:
http://www.speksnk.org/foro/viewtopic.php?t=66974
Enjoy it!
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Unread postby GnaM » 04 Aug 2007 03:42

Like some others, I have to say I didn't completely agree everything, (re: with the sentiment that console games are all crap and arcade games are masterpieces) but you definitely make some strong points and a compelling argument for the 1-credit philosophy. I was completely oblivious to the 1-credit phenomenon, so at the very least it was educational.

On the whole I totally agree that console games have gone far overboard in terms of giving players too many second chances. Not only are you allowed to save anytime, anywhere in most games these days, extra lives are not even a consideration and infinite lives are now an established standard. If these games would just cut back on some of that stuff, it would go a long way to help make them more challenging and bring the quality up. We need more games like Contra: Shattered Soldier.

But of course in the mainstream world, games are no longer viewed as something which must be performed, but merely as content to be consumed and then discarded. Any feature which gets in the way of consuming the product is automatically seen as a flaw...so I don't think we'll see much improvement in this area any time soon.

Anyway, you make a compelling argument for the idea that practicing anything in frequent but short sessions is more effective than marathon sessions. I'll have to try playing some console games that way and see if I improve faster. I know was was surprised how much I improved at Shattered Soldier while only playing sporadically.

It's too bad that people at the shmups forum reacted so poorly to the article. I've found far too often that people take games too personally, in the sense that if you make the mistake of criticizing someone's favorite game, they'll automatically discount everything else you have to say and spout and bunch of immature insults in knee-jerk reaction.

To their credit I think in terms of the writing quality of the article, there is something to be said for it's possibly excessive length. I liked the article, but while reading it I got interrupted halfway through and didn't actually come back and finish it for 2-3 weeks. Certainly there are times when extreme length is necessary, but I think you could have made the same points just as effectively while trimming it down a bit.

Anyway, a good read overall.
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Unread postby icycalm » 04 Aug 2007 14:15

lock wrote:Are you asking me to make a japanese translation?


Well, it would be great if you could do it, but I bet it would be a lot of work. There's no hurry, though. You've already done the Spanish one... perhaps in a few months?

As for Shintaro, man, I've lost his email address, so if you have it send me a PM!

But yeah, if you end up translating the article we could ask him to look it over once it's done.

lock wrote:By the way, I've posted the spanish translation this afternoon. Here's the link:
http://www.speksnk.org/foro/viewtopic.php?t=66974
Enjoy it!


Are they saying anything interesting?

GnaM wrote:Like some others, I have to say I didn't completely agree everything, (re: with the sentiment that console games are all crap and arcade games are masterpieces)


GnaM, I can justify the above sentence in two ways:

a) you are either trying to insult me by insinuating that I would be foolish enough to believe something so obviously inane

or,

b) you have some serious reading comprehension issues

You tell me what to make of this, man!

Also, from now on, whoever else posts that they "didn't completely agree with everything" without elaborating gets banned . Seriously, what's the point of saying this? Either you agree with everything and you post here to let me know and give me a pat on the back, or you go into detail on what it was you disagreed with so we can talk about it. Anything less than that and you are just wasting my time (not to mention annoying me).

GnaM wrote:It's too bad that people at the shmups forum reacted so poorly to the article.


Too bad but unavoidable, in retrospect, because half of them are morons and many of them extremely dislike me.

GnaM wrote:To their credit I think in terms of the writing quality of the article, there is something to be said for it's possibly excessive length.

Certainly there are times when extreme length is necessary, but I think you could have made the same points just as effectively while trimming it down a bit.


Half the guys on Shmups have ADD -- that's what you get from playing shooters for years. And you think this is to their credit?

Let me assure you that every sentence in that article was absolutely necessary to make the points that I wanted to make in the way that I wanted to make them. I could have cut out that whole part about HEY arcade, for example, and just said "hay guyz, in Japan no one continues, lol", but then that statement would not have had the same force that it had after I'd taken the reader through a lengthy and detailed tour of the world's leading bastion of arcade gaming.

In fact, there were several points which I intentionally left out of the article, and which I plan to include in follow-up in a couple of weeks.
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Unread postby alpha5099 » 05 Aug 2007 06:32

icycalm wrote:
alpha5099 wrote:I'm sorry that my idea was so stupid.


Don't sweat it, man -- there is a big difference between ignorance and stupidity. If you want to see what real stupidity looks like, check this:

http://forums.selectbutton.net/viewtopic.php?t=6266


I was actually being sarcastic. I didn't think my question was stupid, but Macaw's response was overly hostile.
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Unread postby icycalm » 05 Aug 2007 14:19

Buddy, if you think Macaw's response was overly hostile, you have no idea what overly hostile means.

And I hope for your sake, because you seem quite sensitive, that you never find out.
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Unread postby MAXCHAIN » 06 Aug 2007 20:46

GnaM wrote:
To their credit I think in terms of the writing quality of the article, there is something to be said for it's possibly excessive length.

Certainly there are times when extreme length is necessary, but I think you could have made the same points just as effectively while trimming it down a bit.

Excessive length? I really didn't find this article to be that long at all. Calling it excessive or extreme just seems absurd to me.
Macaw wrote:
Do you really think people would walk in, play a game once, and then leave the arcade because they 'aren't allowed to play again' ??

From Icy's article:
"...having killed the demon spiders, and the demon caller, and the freaky demon spawn baby, and loses his last life just as the fucking demon guardian spirit thing is about to buy the farm. And what does this guy do? He gets up and leaves."
"A dude is playing Valkyrie no Densetsu all by himself, makes it three-quarters of the way through the game, dies, and gets up and leaves."

It would be very easy to make that distinction if you are unfamiliar with arcades games. Like Icy said most westerners haven't set foot in a real arcade. And even if you have, the attitude in western arcades is totally different.
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Unread postby alpha5099 » 07 Aug 2007 19:07

MAXCHAIN wrote:
From Icy's article:
"...having killed the demon spiders, and the demon caller, and the freaky demon spawn baby, and loses his last life just as the fucking demon guardian spirit thing is about to buy the farm. And what does this guy do? He gets up and leaves."
"A dude is playing Valkyrie no Densetsu all by himself, makes it three-quarters of the way through the game, dies, and gets up and leaves."



The examples that MAXCHAIN quoted are exactly what made me ask my question. I think I understand the One Credit philosophy fairly well, as I apply it to all arcade and arcade style games I play. But if I had been in those people's position, I probably would have had another go on the machine. IcyCalm was citing these examples of people playing one credit, and one credit only, on a machine, which struck me as peculiar. I've been in a few Japanese arcades, and after reading Icy's article, I realized I'd never seen anyone even play a second game, so I decided to find out if it was taboo.
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Unread postby icycalm » 07 Aug 2007 19:30

There are two reasons why many good players don't usually play a second credit:

1. At the level they are playing at the game requires great concentration, something which can be very tiring for long periods of time.

2. A good player can get so far on a single credit that he doesn't feel the need to play again straight away. His "craving" for the game has been temporarily satisfied.

But, of course, if they do decide to play a second or third credit, no one will have any reason to look down on them.
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Unread postby lock » 08 Aug 2007 13:01

icycalm wrote:
lock wrote:Are you asking me to make a japanese translation?


Well, it would be great if you could do it, but I bet it would be a lot of work. There's no hurry, though. You've already done the Spanish one... perhaps in a few months?

As for Shintaro, man, I've lost his email address, so if you have it send me a PM!

But yeah, if you end up translating the article we could ask him to look it over once it's done.

I've already started it. Give me some time and I'll have it in a couples of months.

icycalm wrote:Are they saying anything interesting?

Well, half of them is saying they have readed the original article already.

Other guy is saying that you and IC and other forums like that are pedantic and elitist. He said that arcades died in Europe becouse the games started to become too much hardcore lol. I ask him to explain a little better his theory and the he started to talk shit about your article XD saying that you have no credibility because you critic modern (yeah, he said modern, not even consol) games.

So as you can see nothing new at all. People that enjoyed the article and other that doesn't like you and just can't read it in a neutral way.

By the way, I found a guy who claims to beat Ghost n Goblins in just 1C. He passed me a input file.
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Unread postby Molloy » 08 Aug 2007 19:40

www.superplay.co.uk is very good for videos of people 1CCing games. Youtube has a fair few as well. I enjoy watching them because it's often very hard to get tips on how to play old arcade games. I'm trying to get good at Psycho-Nic Oscar at the moment. (run and gun game that inspired Turrican) and I don't really understand how the powerup system works.
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Unread postby icycalm » 09 Aug 2007 22:09

lock wrote:I've already started it. Give me some time and I'll have it in a couples of months.


I appreciate it. Bon courage!

lock wrote:By the way, I found a guy who claims to beat Ghost n Goblins in just 1C. He passed me a input file.


And I got a message from a guy who says he beat both loops without losing a single life!

Molloy wrote:www.superplay.co.uk is very good for videos of people 1CCing games. Youtube has a fair few as well. I enjoy watching them because it's often very hard to get tips on how to play old arcade games. I'm trying to get good at Psycho-Nic Oscar at the moment. (run and gun game that inspired Turrican) and I don't really understand how the powerup system works.


SuperPlay is a cool site. By the way, you should consider starting a hi-score thread on that game. I think the hi-score board can turn into something really good if enough people take an interest in it.
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Unread postby stratos_999 » 27 Aug 2007 23:45

Hi all :)


I'm new here, and I decided to register on this forum after I read Icycalm's article on arcade culture in Japan.


I make apologize in advance for any grammar error or unappropriate use of the English language because I'm Italian and don't use this wonderful language often.


What I want to say, is that I really appreciated what Icy said in his wonderful article. Obviously, it didn't make sense at all if I say that I appreciated and it's cool if I don't comment it at all.


So, the first thing I want to explain si the fact that Icycalm is speaking about a thing he knows very well. I read often on the Shmups forum about his experiences in Japan with Gaijin Punch, and I think he loves very much the Japanese world, at the point that he wanted to understand theire culture in an accurate way; so his experience is not a random one and if I can't trust it 100% only because I was not there with him, I can give it great faith at least.


I think he didn't want to say that console games are bad: he simply refers to the most of the console audience, that caomplaint about difficulty of easy games. He didn't say that DMC3 or Ninja Gaiden are easy, but he wanted to explain that the most of console players can't see how the level of the challenge in those games is a good thing and raises the level of replayability. Actually, as he said on Shmups forum, he gave hi scores to those games in his review (sorry for word "game" repetition :( ).


Also, I don't think his article is too long: many journalist often try to make theire articles very readable because they want to have a god impact on theire readers, no matter how good is the quality of the contents, and no matter if they explained the fact in a complete way. Icy doesn't want to be a mainstream internet writer, he simply wanted to explain his feelings and thoughts to really interested people, that has a genuine interest on the matter discussed. Really, I didn't wanted his article ever finished at all!


I really agree on the console vs arcade discussion: to me, videogames are products on markets, so the different characteristics of the markets makes differently oriented games, like Arcade games and Console games, or "games to be played in the arcades" and "games to be played at home or online". The places of enjoyment of a product have a strong impact on what are the requisites to his succes on the market, and Icy explained this thought in an affective way, to me.


Also, I really liked the parts in wich he explaines the way Japanese players enjoy the arcade atmosphere. Even in a higly eterogenuous place like an arcade, they are polite with each other, giving to all players the possibility to play their favourite games and share strategies and comments. I have to say taht, many years ago, there was here in my city a little Neogeo-oriented arcade in wich this magic was true for two yers: but then, this small paradise turned into a cove for arrogant snooker players... soooo bad.


Then, the part I liked the most, he speaks about Japanese gaming skill: awesome, I nevere read something more inspiring, an immense need to ply grows in me averytime I read it. Especially when he speaks about brawlers games: his explanation was simple and perfect. It make a very effective summary of the things that make me play Knights of the Round.


Now, I really want to go to Japan now or then and see this things with my eyes. Thank you, Icy :)


P.s.: I don't know if AEX boys told it to you, but the new site is up and running, so we added your site url in our link section. Thank you for adding our in so great advance :)
I don't like music.
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Unread postby icycalm » 28 Aug 2007 02:31

Hey, welcome! Thanks for your nice comments. I am glad you enjoyed the article, and I hope you find your way to Japan one day. Hopefully the arcades will still be alive when you do! ;)

I did in fact notice the cool AEX re-design as well as the link -- thank you!
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Unread postby 60hertz » 28 Aug 2007 18:21

Great article!

There are some console games/ports that make it and keep that arcade feeling in tact, Crazy Taxi pops in to mind as well as Cosmic Smash. The novelty of Ikaruga made it a critical success but you couldn't help hearing the negativity in the reviews about a "dead' genre - which was far from the truth...

One reason why the west has lost out in the arcade culture was because of lazy operators. During the late 80's during the Street FIghter boom all other genres were ignored pretty much (exception being bust-a-move thanks to it being on a Neo Geo which of course was boasting Fighters)... the shooter genre was ignored pretty much during that time and so that audience dwindled. At the same time the fighting game market dwindled because the games were getting more and more specialized, so at the end there was nothing left in the arcade but a handful of fighter game enthusiast and thats it... all other enthusiast were ignored out of the arcade in the west...

Very short sighted buying trends killed the arcade, not console games. Games like DDR had an extremely hard time breaking in the US, and wasnt until returns from korean imports did Konami USA decide to take a "chance" - the dumb suits couldnt tell fun if walked up and slapped with a rubber chicken... operators were hesitant to buy the card based games until Dave & Busters Derbie's Owner's Club returns were so astronomical every D&B bought one...

I dont know if a new business model needs to be put in place but a lack of education and short sightedness lead to the downfall of the american arcade and any hope of an arcade culture in my opinion...

In japan the arcades host competition, there is a magazine that supports the industry (only tips and tricks and edge seem to even nod at the existence of the arcade), there is basically an idea of fostering the culture that is totally absent here - this is another point for demise... ignoring the culture or potential there of...
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Unread postby icycalm » 29 Aug 2007 04:55

Hey man, you are the guy with the website of the same name, right? Welcome!

60hertz wrote:There are some console games/ports that make it and keep that arcade feeling in tact, Crazy Taxi pops in to mind as well as Cosmic Smash. The novelty of Ikaruga made it a critical success but you couldn't help hearing the negativity in the reviews about a "dead' genre - which was far from the truth...


All the games you mention were originally arcade games, later ported to the Dreamcast. So of course they feel like arcade games.

60hertz wrote:At the same time the fighting game market dwindled because the games were getting more and more specialized, so at the end there was nothing left in the arcade but a handful of fighter game enthusiast and thats it... all other enthusiast were ignored out of the arcade in the west...


If you sit down and think about it real hard, you'll see that this was the only way to go. If the games were not evolving towards the direction of "specialization", as you put it, then the fans would stop playing them. Similarly, if companies released easy/simple games to entice beginners, these games would not make as much money as the deeper ones, because the experienced fans would again be snubbing them.

The truth is that even the deepest arcade game is easy to pick up and play even if you are a brain-dead zombie-FPS-playing twelve-year-old. Besides, a total beginner cannot tell the difference between Street Fighter II: The World Warrior and Street Fighter III: Third Strike. So there's no reason to demand that developers "dumb down" their games.

The fault lies squarely with game publications, as far as I am concerned. When they start making jokes about Super Turbo Street Fighter III Hyper Challenge Nova Edition and shit like that, it means they don't understand the nature of these games, and therefore they fail in explaining to their readers how to appreciate them.

If 2,000 gigantic brand-new arcades opened up across America tomorrow, featuring a full range of the latest Japanese games, they would still end up shutting down withing mere weeks because of lack of revenue. And that should tell you all you need to know about who is to blame here.
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Unread postby 60hertz » 29 Aug 2007 17:46

icycalm wrote:Hey man, you are the guy with the website of the same name, right? Welcome!


Thanks, its good to be here! Great article and great website!

icycalm wrote:
60hertz wrote:There are some console games/ports that make it and keep that arcade feeling in tact, Crazy Taxi pops in to mind as well as Cosmic Smash. The novelty of Ikaruga made it a critical success but you couldn't help hearing the negativity in the reviews about a "dead' genre - which was far from the truth...


All the games you mention were originally arcade games, later ported to the Dreamcast. So of course they feel like arcade games.


Oh yes i totally know this, my point was that these games made the transition from arcade to home, and in the case of CT impacted the main stream because of the fact that they were designed as arcade games. Crazy taxi doesn't even have a continue system and yet there were no complaints about this (until later versions of course - which were still improvements that were lost on most of the main stream press)... I guess my point is that the mainstream (meaning press) can accept Arcade Games as a viable philosophy if they are too busy having fun to notice this.

icycalm wrote:
60hertz wrote:At the same time the fighting game market dwindled because the games were getting more and more specialized, so at the end there was nothing left in the arcade but a handful of fighter game enthusiast and thats it... all other enthusiast were ignored out of the arcade in the west...


If you sit down and think about it real hard, you'll see that this was the only way to go. If the games were not evolving towards the direction of "specialization", as you put it, then the fans would stop playing them. Similarly, if companies released easy/simple games to entice beginners, these games would not make as much money as the deeper ones, because the experienced fans would again be snubbing them.

The truth is that even the deepest arcade game is easy to pick up and play even if you are a brain-dead zombie-FPS-playing twelve-year-old. Besides, a total beginner cannot tell the difference between Street Fighter II: The World Warrior and Street Fighter III: Third Strike. So there's no reason to demand that developers "dumb down" their games.

The fault lies squarely with game publications, as far as I am concerned. When they start making jokes about Super Turbo Street Fighter III Hyper Challenge Nova Edition and shit like that, it means they don't understand the nature of these games, and therefore they fail in explaining to their readers how to appreciate them.

If 2,000 gigantic brand-new arcades opened up across America tomorrow, featuring a full range of the latest Japanese games, they would still end up shutting down withing mere weeks because of lack of revenue. And that should tell you all you need to know about who is to blame here.
[/quote]

I'm not saying that fighting games shouldn't have evolved like that, i'm saying that i think the fighting game market overshadowed the rest of the genres (through fault of the operators), and naturally as a game gets more speciallized, the market shrinks. To remain competitive, as a player in the latest iteration, it appears (perception not reality) that you need to have knowledge gained from the last iteration, so this in itself doesn't allow the market to grow - it shrinks.

If an arcade operator had any foresight they would have supported their fighting games with other genres, instead they let the shooter fall to the way-side, puzzlers barely made it past bust-a-move (why don't we have Arika's tetris in the arcades here o.O)... the revenue coming in from fighters were so high that the other genres were ignored. The assumption was that everyone wanted to play a fighting game who went to the arcade, i don't think this assumption happened in Japan, but i felt it here in most arcades.

Another example of the short sightedness of us operators and distributors was the DDR fiasco, it wasnt until after DDR was imported and the revenues were so ridiculous that konami US got the balls to release it domestic... their philosophy was that americans wouldn't like a game about dancing! Like Japan has a more prevelant dance culture than america does... it boggles the mind, the logic...
60hertz
 
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 17:59

Unread postby lock » 29 Aug 2007 20:05

Hi 60hertz,

60hertz wrote:I'm not saying that fighting games shouldn't have evolved like that, i'm saying that i think the fighting game market overshadowed the rest of the genres (through fault of the operators), and naturally as a game gets more speciallized, the market shrinks. To remain competitive, as a player in the latest iteration, it appears (perception not reality) that you need to have knowledge gained from the last iteration, so this in itself doesn't allow the market to grow - it shrinks.


I think the article is saying almost the same thing, but with another viewpoint. We just couldn't follow the japanese fighting games becouse we never play arcade games with the correct philosophy. And then, the consols got better graphics so the people left the arcades. And the rest is history.

60hertz wrote: If an arcade operator had any foresight they would have supported their fighting games with other genres, instead they let the shooter fall to the way-side, puzzlers barely made it past bust-a-move (why don't we have Arika's tetris in the arcades here o.O)...

I don't think that's the real reason. In my town arcades, in the last years before disapearing there was racing, tennis, brawlers, plataform and a lot of different generes (I even remember a shooter game!). The thing is that new generation didn't discover the arcades esence because they had a playstation with better graphics in their home. Why go to spend some bucks in your favourite game when you can play it for free and with the same graphics?
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lock
 
Joined: 04 Nov 2006 12:31
Location: Kyoto

Unread postby 1Up » 26 Sep 2007 20:03

Awesome, awesome article. The whole 1cc thing really strikes a chord with me. I grew up in the arcades during the 80's and 90's and didn't have much cash to pump into the arcades - so visiting the big seaside arcades here in the UK was a real experience. I'd watch as much as I'd play. I've tried to explain the difference between arcades c.1987 compared to the bowling alley/cinema foyer experience of 2007 and it's almost impossible.

Before I'd read this article, it never occurred to me that the death of the arcade had a geographical angle. I'd always assumed that home consoles were the single main cause. Go figure.

Before I shuffle off this mortal coil, I'll set foot in a Jap arcade to see this for myself.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." (Groucho Marx)
1Up
 
Joined: 25 Sep 2007 14:27

Unread postby jackfrozt » 27 Sep 2007 07:25

Hello icycalm,

Reading this has brought me much joy, thank you.

I too had to register just to say how awesome this is. Unlike the others, I agree to it 100%, or at least to my interpretation of it.

I've started playing Raiden and Street Fighter II back in 93, when I was just 10. I've been a big fan of the SF series since then. I hold much pride in getting 10+ win streak (highest was 22 on xmen vs sf) every visit during the peak of my arcade days, when the newest SF of the time always had a crowd watching.

Theres no replacement for being next to the opponent. I laughed and pitied at the frustration of a lesser challenger as he screams and bangs the arcade. I cried for joy and accomplishment for overcoming the anxiety of facing a dexterous pro with my sweaty hands, to finally winning a match with a silver of hp. Great matches earned mutual respect, and even friendship, regardless of ethnic or age difference. The arcade, where skill is king.

Reading this has brought back memories, good times. Great read.
jackfrozt
 
Joined: 27 Sep 2007 06:55
Location: Toronto

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