Theory

[loser]

Hi, like another poster here I was inspired by the Arcade culture
article to try 1ccing shmups. The result is that I am now enjoying
gaming again after years of virtually no activity on that front. I
used to play fairly frequently but got turned off by the perception
that game development was increasingly based on values that didn't
really appeal to me. So let me add my voice to the choir reassuring
the author that the article was constructive and helpful, provided one
doesn't read too deeply into the apparent elitism and doesn't mind
reading a long and detailed article, despite the harsh criticism it
received on some internet forums. The issues explained in the article
were certainly not obvious to an arcade newbie like me, as some
experienced gamers complained.

I decided to start my 1cc attempts with Elemental master at home since
it was recommended as a relatively easy game on these forums. So far
my impression of this gaming discipline is generally favorable but
there's one problem: it's possible to end up in a situation where you
get completely stuck at one point in the game and yet are so fluent at
the parts that come before it that those parts don't offer any
challenge. So you end up dying over and over again at that same
point, and in order to try again you have to absent-mindedly wade
through the preceding parts first. This is a little disconcerting
when you get stuck near the end of the game, since almost all of your
play time is spent on the easy bits.

With the assumption that even experienced arcade gamers sometimes
encounter this problem, how do they deal with it? Do they enjoy the
graphics and music so much that they gladly play through the easy bits
over and over again? Does having spectators watching them play in a
real arcade make it worthwhile, or the recognition from beating a high
score no matter how much repetitive practice is required? Are they
willing to tolerate a less thrilling gaming experience in order to
save money at a real arcade, since you can play an easy game longer
than a hard one for the same amount of money? Is it the hard-working
and disciplined mentality depicted in Western stereotypes of Eastern
people? Is the progression of difficulty in Elemental master
generally flawed or designed for a different player aptitude than
mine, with the contrast between the easy and hard spots much less
noticeable in other games? Or something else entirely?

I'm thinking of the guy "going through Ketsui's second loop seemingly
absent-mindedly" as depicted in the article. To be honest, I don't
really understand why someone would want to do that. There's got to
be another game around where that guy can find more of a challenge
than in a game that he plays through "absent-mindedly". But people
tend to have a reason for everything they do. Experienced arcade
gamers, please enlighten me in my ignorance.

[MAXCHAIN]

I decided to start my 1cc attempts with Elemental master at home since
it was recommended as a relatively easy game on these forums.

In stead of picking a game you think'll be easy, you should try picking a game that you really, really enjoy. Otherwise you won't want to make progress.
The way i see it, when you are going through those parts you are already proficient at you should be learning to score more efficiently. Unfortunately, I don't think Elemental Master has a scoring system :\

PS: Doesn't necessarily have to be a shooter! You could try a puzzle game, platformer, run 'n gun, whichever you like the best!

[icycalm]

loser, welcome here. First thing, I'd like to ask you is to try and use existing threads when possible. Your post could have easily gone in the "arcade culture" thread in the feedback forum, or in the other 1CC thread further down the page in this forum. Making multiple threads on the same subject only makes it harder for everyone to find information when they want it. I'll try later on to see if I can merge this thread with one of the others.

Now, to your questions.

With the assumption that even experienced arcade gamers sometimes
encounter this problem, how do they deal with it? Do they enjoy the
graphics and music so much that they gladly play through the easy bits
over and over again?

Basically, yes. I can keep replaying the first 3-4 stages of Espgaluda until the end of time without becoming bored of them.

Moreover, if the game in question has a scoring mechanic (like all modern STGs do) there will always be room for score improvement, even in the stages which you have thoroughly mastered. So in the run-up to the tough points there will always be stuff to do and figure out.

or the recognition from beating a high
score no matter how much repetitive practice is required? Are they
willing to tolerate a less thrilling gaming experience in order to
save money at a real arcade, since you can play an easy game longer
than a hard one for the same amount of money? Is it the hard-working
and disciplined mentality depicted in Western stereotypes of Eastern
people? Is the progression of difficulty in Elemental master
generally flawed or designed for a different player aptitude than
mine, with the contrast between the easy and hard spots much less
noticeable in other games? Or something else entirely?

Playing a good game over and over again is never "repetitive" -- except if we are talking about a crap game. Also, no one is "tolerating a less thrilling experience" in arcades -- everyone is having a good time, otherwise they wouldn't be going there. And hardly anyone is trying to save money these days -- most guys playing shooters and fighters in Japanese arcades are in their late-20s early-30s and, trust me, even the lowliest salariman makes enough money in Japan to be able to afford a few credits a day at his local game center.

Basically, dude, at this point, I don't think you have anything to gain by trying to figure all this out through discussion. What you need to do is find a game that will click with you, and then everything will fall into place and all your questions will be instantly answered.

Therefore, I think that your best bet is to get an import-capable PS2 (either a Jap/Asian one or a modded Western console), hook it up to a large, tated (that means on its side) CRT TV and a decent arcade stick (even a Hori Fighting stick 2 will do), and play until you can get to the third stage on one credit (shouldn't take you more than a few days).

Do all the above and all your questions shall be answered.

I'm thinking of the guy "going through Ketsui's second loop seemingly
absent-mindedly" as depicted in the article. To be honest, I don't
really understand why someone would want to do that. There's got to
be another game around where that guy can find more of a challenge
than in a game that he plays through "absent-mindedly".

You are not understanding the sentence. I said that he is playing it "seemingly" absent-mindedly, meaning that he only appears to not be concentrating. I only made that comment to underscore how good he is at the game: so good that he makes it look effortless.

[filterpunk]

You are not understanding the sentence. I said that he is playing it "seemingly" absent-mindedly, meaning that he only appears to not be concentrating. I only made that comment to underscore how good he is at the game: so good that he makes it look effortless.

I think this used to be called being "in the zone," though the kids nowadays probably call it "tight" or something.

[loser]

Thanks for the detailed feedback and for tolerating my cluelessness.
I thought starting a new thread was the right thing to do because the
point of my post was to inquire about 1ccing in detail, whereas the
"Arcade culture" and "First attempt at a 1cc" threads, at least to me,
suggest a different approach with different questions to be raised,
even if the topics they discuss are related. So my motivation was the
same, "for everyone to find information", but my judgement suggested
the exact opposite way to accomplish that. I don't use internet
forums a lot so my conception of forum culture may well be off. Feel
free to rearrange as you see fit.

It seems my understanding of the 1cc discipline was mainly hindered by
lack of exposure to the right games. As far as I can tell Elemental
master doesn't have a sophisticated scoring system, and though the
graphics and music get the job done they're not enough to hold my
interest. When I wrote my original post I was playing at the default
difficulty level, which doesn't have enough action going on, so a
stage does get repetitive after a few dozen times going through. The
situation improved when I learned of the hidden settings menu which
can be accessed by pressing A+Start at the title screen. Cranking the
difficulty level up to "mania" makes the early levels much more
interesting. Trying to use the charged-up attack as much as possible
also makes the game harder and more elegant. One thing that caused me
to die frequently is that some of the bosses lack obvious cues as to
when and where you're supposed to hit them. Once you figure that out
they're not too hard.

It took more time than expected but now I have finally 1cc'd the game,
so I got the reference experience I was looking for, and an appetite
for more games. I remember feeling depressed when playing some game
for more than half an hour at a time. With a non-engaging game you
get habituated to its simple patterns and the illusion of immersion
breaks down, making it feel like you're just pushing buttons to
complete some preprogrammed sequence of activities rather than taking
on an exciting challenge. That doesn't happen with the shmups I've
been playing, I can easily play for a couple hours straight without
feeling like I'm wasting my life. That has been a positive surprise.

I have tried emulating a few other Mega drive shmups besides Elemental
master, based on recommendations by various reviewers around the
internet. In particular, Musha Aleste by Compile seems to have a lot
more action than Elemental master, particularly towards the end of the
game where you have swarms of missile-firing enemies filling the
screen and battleships with cannons. Based on my limited exposure, it
seems to be a common case that the later stages are more interesting
than one would expect based on the first stages, which I guess is a
good thing.

With regard to MAXCHAIN's suggestion to try other genres, from what
I've seen so far I've been most attracted to shmups, though I plan to
try other genres in depth at some point. By all accounts it's better
to concentrate in depth on a small number of games at a time, so I
plan to focus on shooters for the immediate future.

Still, an opinion such as "I can keep replaying the first 3-4 stages
of Espgaluda until the end of time without becoming bored of them" is
hard for me to fathom because I have never played any game that good,
but I will take it at face value. Come to think of it, I could say
the same about the best music I have listened to, but I could
understand someone wondering how someone can listen to the same album
over and over again. A very tiny amount of all the music out there is
that good, even an album that's merely "good" wouldn't withstand
repeated listens for years, so it's entirely possible that someone has
never heard anything that good.

I have had the thought kicking around in my mind that maybe I should
just get a console port of a Cave shooter as soon as possible since
consensus seems to be that that's basically as good as shooters get.
I took a cursory look at what shooters are available for the various
consoles, and it seems like a PS2 would indeed be the best choice. I
don't currently have any modern console; as I said, I've hardly been
gaming at all for the last few years, and before my hiatus I mainly
played PC games. In fact, I don't even have a TV. I'll try to get a
TV and a modern console and some arcade ports once I have more money
and time. In the meantime, I'll read up on gaming some more to get a
better sense for hardware issues and the various genres, and work
towards completing Musha Aleste on my rudimentary emulation setup.
Thanks again for educating the public.

[MAXCHAIN]

Congrats on your first ALL!

[icycalm]

Good luck with your arcade gaming endeavors, and don't forget to keep us posted.

PS. Your posts here have been some of the most well-written ones I've ever seen in a video game forum. I bet this has something to do with you giving up on games for several years lol.

[marco75]

I agree that credit feeding your way through a game is pointless, though for a different reason -- it's not fun. I play to see what happens next -- new environment, enemies, friends, story development etc.

I get an endorphin boost out of a game when I have figured out a solution to the obstacles the makers have put in my way of seeing the next part of the game.

If I bypass this learning process with credit feeding, I cheat myself out of enjoyment factor, and I might as well not bother playing... if I wanted to just see the end of something, I could watch a replay... or read a novel or watch a movie.

However, to get my thrill, the challenge has to be on a level where I can just scrape by... and playing the easy levels over and over to get to the good part is something I prefer to bypass.

This is where savestates can be used responsibly: I use this for shooters -- I play to defeat a stage until I can beat it without losing a life. Once the boss blows up, I save right there. In the next stage, I will probably meet an unfamiliar situation and die. I keep playing until I lose all my lives, and then either conclude my session, or load the savegame to try to master that level in its entirety.

Games like Gradius or R-Type that sent you back to a checkpoint sort of do this already, except with my method, you keep all your weapons and lifes until the last stage.

Anyway, it works for me.

(The hardest thing for me is actually concentrating on one game at a time. With emulation, I have access to just about every game on the old systems. Less is more, and concentrating on one or two games is definitely the way to get good at them.)

[markedkiller78]

I agree that credit feeding your way through a game is pointless

However, to get my thrill, the challenge has to be on a level where I can just scrape by... and playing the easy levels over and over to get to the good part is something I prefer to bypass.

This is where savestates can be used responsibly: I use this for shooters -- I play to defeat a stage until I can beat it without losing a life. Once the boss blows up, I save right there. In the next stage,

I agree in the most part with what you are saying, but it’s a bit of a contradiction.

I’m currently working on 1cc’ing Esp Rade. For the first 2 months or so I would play a coin, die, then start from the beginning. I love the game and replaying wasn’t a chore, but I have that many other games sitting now that I want to get into. I’ve now started to credit feed, It’s a pcb so save states aren’t an option. Without going into too much detail I essentially want to 1cc the game, so in order to practice level 5.1 & 5.2 I need to credit feed.

Aren’t save states just another way of doing this?

For me after a certain point, say 2 months of solid playing I get too frustrated in being so close to the end, that I need to credit feed to get as much practice into the bosses as possible. I know this says more about my personality then anything else. I don't think you take away the enjoyment of a game by credit feeding (to an extent) There must be others out there that see the challenge of 1cc’ing a game as the most important thing, then working on a hi-score and believe that the ends justifies the means?

Please bear in mind that I’ve only been into shmups for 18months, so I’m am learning my trade as it were. If I had been playing for 10 years plus I’m sure I wouldn’t need to credit feed at all

[MAXCHAIN]

Good luck with your arcade gaming endeavors, and don't forget to keep us posted.

PS. Your posts here have been some of the most well-written ones I've ever seen in a video game forum. I bet this has something to do with you giving up on games for several years lol.

And he doesn't have a tv, that might have helped him avoid brain damage.