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Insomnia Balance

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Insomnia Balance

Unread postby icycalm » 12 Sep 2017 19:09

We will be creating our own balance to be used in all Insomnia events. Proposals will be made by participants only (current or previous), and then clan leaders will vote on whether to implement them.

We will be trying one or two changes a week, and then re-evaluating after each weekend.

Elite is preparing an opening proposal, something simple to get us started, so let's wait for his post on that.


CURRENT CHANGE LIST:
  • Advanced factory metal cost increased by 75%
  • Added Legion orbital fabber and Tyr orbital titan as T2 and T4 units respectively (with the existing T2 becoming T3 as a result), and increased the metal cost of the fabber from 1300 to 1950 and of the Tyr from 40,000 to 52,000
  • Orbital fabbers can no longer build non-orbital titans
  • Angel build cost decreased from 5500 to 3000
  • Icarus energy production increased from 175 to 260
  • Gil-E main weapon range increased from 180 to 220
  • Leveler cost increased from 600 to 700
  • Anchor build bar icon color changed to deep blue and the T3 icon has been added to it
Last edited by icycalm on 21 Oct 2017 00:39, edited 6 times in total.
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Unread postby Elite Sardaukar » 12 Sep 2017 19:13

I would personally like to see the range of the Gil-E buffed to its classic range of 220. Everyone knows these units are grotesquely underused.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 13 Sep 2017 07:22

There were a number of other minor changes besides range made to the Gil-E going from Classic to Titans. Firstly:

Health: 200 -> 150
Metal Cost: 1200 -> 800

The Gil-E actually has two weapons: One that I think is for intercepting missiles and remains unchanged from Classic, and its main weapon that underwent several changes:

-Range reduced from 220 to 180.
-Changed from a shell-type weapon to a beam-type (So I guess this means that there is no projectile travel time. Other than this there seems to be no mechanical difference between the two types).
-Damage increased from 350 to 400 DPS.

The information on weapon 2 listed here: https://palobby.com/units/unit/bot_sniper is wrong. Check in your 'Planetary Annihilation Titans\media\pa_ex1\units\land\bot_sniper' folder to see the correct files.

The question is whether you guys think we should revert to the Classic Gil-E entirely or find some mix between the two?
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Unread postby icycalm » 13 Sep 2017 11:22

Diskraip has told me on Discord that he agrees with Elite's suggestion and is preparing a list of balance proposals of his own. Furball hasn't weighed in yet, but he said he will reply. In any case, we need to start working on this asap, to have it ready in good time for Saturday's events (remember that the mod will be used for both the League and the Wars...), and above all to make sure that everyone knows how to install it correctly and playtest it to make sure it works as intended. So Robo, make the change Elite suggested, and once you have the mod ready tell me on Discord how to install it, and test it with me. Then, when we are sure it's working for us, we can tell people here how to install it, and by then Furballman will have hopefully replied, and he and the others can tell us if they want further changes to the Gil-E beyond the one Elite suggested.
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Unread postby recoil » 13 Sep 2017 11:30

Here's a list of changes proposed by Nosebreaker in the Uber forum:

https://forums.uberent.com/threads/patc ... st-1143149

nosebreaker wrote:Ideas to patch

The aircraft carrier needs to be expanded in size so that about 12 figters may land and be repaired on its deck taxi around then take off. The Nosebreaker would like to see steam assist catipult on the Cv Tiney details like that......

Advanced subs are range is too small increase the range of the torpedo by about 1.9
The Leveler armour is way too weak it should not be as easily killable by t1 ........
Vision of the bombers is way to small they cant run from fighters also increase in speed.
Cost of Nukes is way to high Since t 2 has cost decrease the nukes need to half too.
air scout vision increase give them adv radar too so they are like an awacs The Nosebreaker think its called
increase life of power gens so that they can be used as shield. and dont die so easy
mex should have high powerd laser on them and also see into the future.
advanced factories should build way way slower.
com should be able to reclaim itself....


Some of these are humorous but I am not good enough to be able to say which with certainty lol. We can examine each idea in turn, with the leaders voting on them, one per week or something.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 14 Sep 2017 14:47

The balance mod is ready with just the one change Elite suggested. We tested it out yesterday, and it works fine, and it will be used in the League games and the War on Saturday. Furballman hasn't replied yet, but Elite and Diskraip and icy voted to try it, so we are going ahead with it and hopefully pXs will be okay with it.

If anyone wants to see any further changes for Saturday, let me know here asap so I have time to implement and test them. I think there is room to try a couple more changes to make the mod even more interesting for Saturday.
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Unread postby Furballman » 14 Sep 2017 23:27

Just a suggestion, I think Grenadiers are underused, especially since the days that they were 'the OP' unit in the game, so maybe allow them to shoot when they walk forward, but maybe decrease the speed at which they move, or the damage or something, but I don't know the exact numbers or anything, but as I said, just a suggestion.
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Unread postby icycalm » 14 Sep 2017 23:28

I also want to add the Tyr from Legion. I see pXs and BSE often using three-four Helioses in the late-game, and it would give them more options, like for example using two of each, the Tyrs to attack, and then Helioses to deploy troops behind them. Unless anyone has any objections with this, Robo will try to have it in the games this Saturday. It's my favorite unit in PA and I can't wait to see it used in the League and the Wars.

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Unread postby icycalm » 14 Sep 2017 23:38

As for the Grenadiers, since you don't have any numbers, let's wait and see if someone else wants to offer some numbers. I personally think a change to the Grenadiers might be good, but I don't have numbers either. So if some expert offers numbers, we will make a change and test it.
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Unread postby Furballman » 14 Sep 2017 23:39

The rest of pXs seem satisfied with the changes mentioned so far, but Senketsu wishes that you could utilise the 'Hold the line' mod (I think it's called) as a rally point for the units straight from the factory.
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Unread postby icycalm » 15 Sep 2017 03:25

Is this a server mod? I thought it was a client mod. We'll look into it.

Another change I want to make is to prevent the orbital fabbers from building non-orbital titans. It cheapens the other fabbers and dumbs-down the titan mechanics. Fabbers should only be able to build their own titans. How does everyone feel about that? I'd like to have this change in for Saturday too, if we are in agreement.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 15 Sep 2017 03:35

We have an extra titan now!

20170915031601_1.jpg


And here are some screenshots illustrating the new Gil-E range:

20170915032235_1.jpg

20170915032244_1.jpg


The first screen shows the range of the Hornet, which has been kept at 180 (the same as the Gil-E's old range), and the second shows the new range of the Gil-E, which is now 220.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 15 Sep 2017 20:47

Furballman, I will look into improving the "Cover the Line" mod with Senketsu's suggestion. I've started using it recently and really like it. But I will try to talk to its creator first, just in case he wants to do the improvement himself.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 21 Sep 2017 12:43

Since there haven't been any objections, I updated the mod to include icy's suggestion that orbital fabbers build only orbital titans.

Also, I changed the color of the anchor build bar icon from light blue to dark blue, and added the small triangular icon to it that designates it as a T2 structure. This was an error on Uber's part. Since the orbital fabber is considered a T2 fabber, and since no other fabber can make the Anchor, the Anchor is a T2 structure, and should be dark blue like all the rest.

Both changes are reflected in this screenshot:

20170921123402_1.jpg


These changes will be used in Saturday's games. If anyone has any more suggestions, tell me asap so I can implement them and test them in good time, otherwise they will be pushed to next week.
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Unread postby Diskraip » 21 Sep 2017 18:12

By the way, on account of balance. I'm still thinking about many changes, but I already have one proposal. This increase the metal cost for the Leveler from 600 to 700.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 21 Sep 2017 18:29

I made the change.

20170921182225_1.jpg


List of changes so far in chronological order:

-Gil-E main weapon range increased from 180 to 220
-Tyr orbital titan added from Legion
-Orbital fabbers can no longer build non-orbital titans
-Anchor's build bar icon changed to deep blue and the T2 icon has been added to it
-Leveler metal cost increased from 600 to 700

If anyone objects to any of these, post here and we'll discuss it/vote on it, either before we test it, or at any time afterwards.
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Unread postby icycalm » 21 Sep 2017 20:20

Something else to think about for next week:

Elite Sardaukar
the [jig] explosion is very exploitable
you can partial build them at like 1-2% and then they explode when attacked

icycalm
oh
lol

Elite Sardaukar
good method to shield take out orbital armies if you are tricky with it
especially good vs omegas and avengers
1 fabber can essentially take out armies
you can also bounce the fabbers into the enemies orbital factories and just part place a heap

icycalm
That's something to fix then I guess

Elite Sardaukar
let them kill their own factories then

icycalm
Let me get this straight: Right now the explosions of your jigs don't kill your own factories, and you would like us to change it so that they do? (edited)

Elite Sardaukar
no

Elite Sardaukar
you can build them near enemy factories and when units auto agro they get one shot due to only being partially complete and explode killing enemy stuff

icycalm
Okay
How do we fix that?

Elite Sardaukar
there is no way to fix it
unless the jig explosion was removed

icycalm
I see
Do you want it removed?

Elite Sardaukar
not so sure on that
it can make them hard to protect also

icycalm
Maybe we can make it so that it only explodes after it is fully built?

Elite Sardaukar
if possible sure
but i dont think it is possible
but by all means have a look

icycalm
I will ask Robo
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Unread postby icycalm » 21 Sep 2017 21:35

Elite Sardaukar
if there is a way to make it possible to nuke orbital again it would be amazing, i cannot remember if they did it already
pretty sure it is still not nukeable
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Unread postby Elite Sardaukar » 21 Sep 2017 22:00

With regards to being able to nuke orbital on a gas giant, the only problem I can see that people will have with it is there is currently no orbital anti-nuke. Having said that being able to nuke orbital on a gas giant, I still believe it is a nice easy way to be able to break Jig stockpiles.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 21 Sep 2017 22:23

I'm 90% sure you are right that there's no way to make that change to Jigs, except by turning off the explosion altogether.

We can change the nukes to hit orbital though.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 21 Sep 2017 22:42

What we could do is just change the atrophy rate of the Jigs to be extremely fast. I just tested it and they do no damage when they die via decay.
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Unread postby Elite Sardaukar » 22 Sep 2017 09:31

I would like to propose a rather big change to the game, I would like to see the cost of T2 factories increased 2x to make really early T2 a more risky move.
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Unread postby icycalm » 22 Sep 2017 13:57

I am okay with giving this a try. Let's wait for Diskraip and Furballman to weigh in before we do anything.

I think though that this is such a big change that we shouldn't introduce it to the events without testing. Next week we will talk to mikey to see if we can get the mod on CMM for you guys to test. If we do this on say Monday, you could have several days of testing before next week's events.

One idea I have for the mod is a custom lobby, with all the balance changes listed on the sidebar (replacing the server specs and leaderboards in our white event lobbies, but with a different, blue/black background). So whoever walks in the lobby knows immediately all the changes without having to ask anything.
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Unread postby Robomoo » 22 Sep 2017 14:29

I have also put the mod on Bitbucket with an MIT license, meaning anyone can do anything to it that they want: https://bitbucket.org/Robomoo/insomnia-balance/
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Unread postby Diskraip » 22 Sep 2017 21:00

Elite Sardaukar wrote:I would like to propose a rather big change to the game, I would like to see the cost of T2 factories increased 2x to make really early T2 a more risky move.

I think about it too. But maybe at first increase on 1.75x?
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