Games

[icycalm]

https://albiononline.com/

"Sandbox" MMORPG just released in July. Not sure what sandbox means.

Where Are Your Limits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg8zjE0Bh14

Looks pretty cool.

[CTF]

When talking about MMORPGs there are two main distinctions between styles of games: "theme-park" and "sandbox".

Theme-parks are the type of MMOs that are more linear. They usually have a main storyline to follow, many more quests and the progression in the gameworld is pretty straightforward. You get to a new area with monsters your appropriate level, do some side-quests, follow the main quests until it takes you to a new area and repeat until you finish the story at which point people turn to stuff like PVP, trying to farm the best gear, maxing out their stats or whatever other activities the game offers. The vast majority of MMOs that are coming out right now belong to this camp which is, sadly, the more boring one. They do not tap the power of the genre as much as the sandbox. In these games everyone is the hero, everyone does the same main quest, everyone gets the same scripted events, and they are much more "on rails" than the sandbox type.

Sandbox MMOs are less quest-driven, they don't focus on following a predetermined chain of main quests, and in general they usually have a lot fewer side-quests too. Instead, this type of game tries to create a living, breathing world that is a platform for players to create their own stories. Games such as these usually feature things like PVP anywhere (as opposed to theme-parks which usually have different, instanced maps for PVP, or PVP zones), deeper crafting systems and "jobs" (mining, woodcutting, blacksmithing, etc.) Because of the nature of these games, it is a lot more important to be part of some guild because you wouldn't survive on your own. Usually these type of games contain some form of "turf wars" as cities and areas of the map are usually controlled by player-made organizations as opposed to theme-parks where the towns and resources just exist and no one controls them. In sandbox, every player strives to have some position within a bigger organization, everyone has a role. The people who specialized in combat fight other guilds for control of resources, the miners then go and mine the ore which the blacksmiths use to craft weapons for the guild which the warriors then use to expand the guild's power.

In essence, where in theme-park MMOs every player is the legendary chosen one who will save the planet from the ancient evil that awakens and everyone is "special" in the story, sandbox games try to create a player-driven story where the events that happen in the world are up to the players, as guilds fight each other to grow in power and influence. In theme-parks you can play solo, creating parties with automatic party finder systems when you need to do a quest that requires them; in sandboxes you need to be part of something, as alone you cannot achieve much, and you cannot stand up to even the smallest of guilds. Some of these games are so unforgiving that if you are killed in the wilds by someone else, he can just take your gear and items you had on you so it is essential to band together to survive.
In theme-parks everyone can be all-powerful and do everything, in sandbox games you need to specialize to fit the role you want to play in your guild.

This trailer to Albion Online does a good job explaining this "every person has a role" concept pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbN6aqgGtuc

Theme-park MMOs are designed to take everyone to more or less the same ride. Of course one player will do the ride as a mage and another will do it as a fighter, but in the end it is still the same ride and it has a lot more limitations and offers less freedom for the players. Sandbox games instead try to give the players a sandbox to play in, and let them decide what they want to do and what role they want to have in the world. They offer a lot more player freedom and every player's actions have more consequences on the gameworld and himself. You can't really fuck up in a theme-park, but you can really screw yourself and your guild over in a sandbox.

[icycalm]

That's very instructive, thanks. I'll make a feature of it and post it on the frontpage if you don't mind.

[icycalm]

Also, what style is Black Desert? I am guessing theme-park?

[CTF]

Of course I don't mind, It would be an honor.

As for Black Desert, many people would say that it is a sandbox but I think this is inaccurate. What happened in the MMO market is that the battle between sandbox and theme-park was pretty even until World of Warcraft came along. After WOW was released, it set the standard for a lot of people for what an MMO should be. WOW was a theme-park, and it was so influential and successful that for years the only high profile MMOs that were being made were all theme-parks, everyone was trying to copy WOW and beat it. Nowadays, we went full circle, and developers realized no one can beat WOW in its own game, and a new wave of players are claiming to be sick of "WOW clones". So if ten years ago everyone was trying to make the next big theme-park, today everyone is trying to market their game as a sandbox. The term became some sort of buzzword in the MMO market and developers are always so eager to jump on the sandbox train because that's what it seems that the players want.

Black Desert is one of these games. If you ask its fans they will tell you it's a sandbox, and while it's true that it has borrowed some sandbox elements (more so than almost all other theme-parks), it is still not a pure sandbox. I think many of the players of these newer pseudo-sandbox games just never played a real sandbox game, and they see sandbox elements in some of these new MMOs and are quick to label them as a sandbox when in fact they are just theme-parks with some sandbox elements.

Black Desert tries, perhaps harder than any other theme-park right now, but ultimately it still is a lot more limiting in what you can do as opposed to a sandbox, and has a much more linear progression and quest system than a true sandbox (even has a main quest line). You get a penalty of attacking players who do not want to be attacked, the economy is not as player controlled as it is in a real sandbox (as far as I recall, they actually removed player-to-player trading in this game) among other reasons.

In a real sandbox game, anything that happens inside the gameworld is fair game: if you get attacked, stolen from, tricked and so on it's your problem and you need to suck it up and plan your revenge. In Black Desert if you are not using the "PVP mode" flag and you get attacked the game punishes the player who attacked you. This sort of artificial limitation imposed by the developers are designed to allow players to go on their roller-coaster rides uninterrupted and do not belong in a pure sandbox MMO.

Examples of pure sandbox MMOs would be EVE Online, Ultima Online, Wurm Online, Darkfall: Unholy Wars, Albion Online and the upcoming The Repopulation.

[icycalm]

Thanks for the clarifications. I'll be sure to add them to the feature.

More on the P2W discussion from Discord:

https://www.reddit.com/r/albiononline/c ... h=10d2d621

I've played MMOs since 1999 when it was the norm to pay $50 for the game and a $12-14 per month subscription fee.

I've played Albion Online for several months, and this game is partly "paid to win". Now, I am perfectly fine with games making money - it's the entire point of developing a game (and development isn't cheap). But, for those who say this game is 100% P2W or 100% not P2W, you are both wrong.

The game is partially P2W because you can buy in-game gold with real money. You can use the in-game gold several ways to benefit: buying resources off the AH so you can level crafting faster, buy higher tier potions, buy high tier foods for best benefits, and the biggest benefit is being able to buy .2 and .3 tier weapons and gear. Given this scenarios the game is partially pay to win, because with real money I can play with the best items in the game regardless of losing them in PvP.

The game is partially not P2W because you cannot buy skills over time. By this I'm referring to leveling up wearing or using certain gear. You also cannot increase leveling gathering with money. You have to just level gathering by - gathering.

Overall, it's a nice balance. But, to say AO is 100% in either direction is incorrect.

[icycalm]

Update Kay Coming December 6
https://albiononline.com/en/news/kay-is-coming

Seasonal GvG Content - Hold territories to earn siphoned energy and gain points for fame and glory!
Territory Raids - New open and constant PvP opportunities for your whole guild.
Battle Mounts - Ride one of the three beasts into battle and give your group an edge in open world clashes!
New Artifact Weapons - One new weapon for every weapon type. Loot changes, and lots of balancing.
Enhanced Game Performance - Makes Albion smooth again!
Political World Map - See who holds the territories around you at a glimpse.
Hardcore Expeditions - For a little (or maybe more than just a little) extra challenge!
Extended Tutorial - Ease into the game with more... well, ease.
New Expedition - New Heretic T6 group expedition. Stop those bandits!
And more! - Guild Rankings. Defender Bonus mechanic changes. iOS and Android stability improvements.

Political World Map and Guild Rankings sound cool, and December 6 is not far away.

[icycalm]

I have bad news. I found a couple of negative reviews that sound on point. I don't think the game is worth 0/10 as they do lol, but from what I have seen, and from what they are saying, it seems like a solid 3/5, which means I doubt we'll be playing it for more than a few days -- couple of weeks at most. So whoever isn't rolling in money might want to save that $30 for Life is Feudal, which we'll be trying as soon as we are done with this. Personally, I don't regret my purchase, but YMMV.

http://www.metacritic.com/user/satanikz

Don't waste your time.

- Rubberbanding during prime hours months after release despite > 75% of population gone. This is the only time I can play after work. Their infrastructure is absolutely terrible.
- Vast encouragement of zerging in virtually all game mechanics.
- Everything is instanced on tiny maps which are copy & pasted (lazy). Loading sceens galore.
- More copy paste with skills with slight variations that make no sense whatsoever for their purpose.
- Development incompetence with regard to PvP balance and skills (stuns/snares should do less or no damage, those lacking these abilities should do more, etc).
- Severe imbalances across entire weapon & armor skilltrees with only a select few viable (this is very bad in a very grindy progression game).
- "Game based around 5v5 PvP" when < 1% compete in the 5v5 PvP worth anything. Slave system where guilds force members to "donate" millions of silver a week. Extremely poor game design.
- Countless newbie traps attributed to bad game design. E.G. Worthless player islands (blue towns are useless endgame, funnelled to red towns and pay extortionate silver to go to your island), ghost towns (as all funnelled to 1 town), farming (market is saturated and you lose money trying), builds (very few builds are viable), etc.
- Buy to play, pay to play, pay to win (can get max crafting in 1 day with credit card). This is all 3 models, milk the cash cow.
- Extremely boring PvE. Removal of functioning, fun, PvE that gave "too much silver" and encouraged PvP in the "open world" which is instanced.
- Hackers / bots everywhere.
- Graphics look like it's from 2003.
- Lack of any lore in it's entirety.
- "Full loot" visage, more care bear than some theme park mmo's offering better mechanics and subsequent rewards, particularly for smallscale / solo which is nonexistent.
- Made as difficult as possible, if not impossible to die or lose *anything*. Including BZ city. Smoke and mirrors.
- "Sandbox" but everything about it is linear and structured. No sand in the box.
- Median higher tier item power = worthless because the devs want a gang of newbs in cheap gear to be able to kill experienced players in a progression game. E.G. Tier 4 weapon does almost as much damage as tier 7.
- Skilltrees changed after huge investments and other major game mechanic changes post release after several additional years of beta.
- Implementation of utterly ridiculous concepts unsuitable for full loot sandbox openworld. E.G. Instanced expeditions without PvP, instanced arenas, etc and more to come I am sure.
- Completely changing game direction post release. Now it's am amalgamation of every MMO ever released except created extremely badly in most respects.

http://www.metacritic.com/user/John_Mullins

The game is a **** joke, and I'll be 100% honest, I wish every time I look at the icon on my desktop there was a way I could get my $100 dollars back.

yeah, I invested in the legendary founders pack, because the game promised the moon.. and delivered absolute dog feces heaped on a plate with an extra large spoon for you to eat with.

The whole game was SUPPOSED to be a "true successor" to Ultima Online era gameplay. Work the tradeskills, build your town, etc etc etc.

What you GET is graphics that make DOOM 2 look **** Futuristic, craptastic paywalls that practically cock slap your ever move, and then there's the biggest hot dong in the eye...

the "personal island" is the biggest **** joke Ive ever seen in a video game. Ever. Like EVER. You put dozens of hours farming mundane and boring materials to upgrade your "house" which starts as a 1 room shack about 4 steps wide.

The final "upgrade' to your home.. which you've now sunk DOZENS of hours into building... is a 1 room **** shack about 6 steps wide.

Your shops? Oh yeah... more mundane farming for them too... only you cant actually USE them.. cause they get "hungry" and you have to "feed" them in order to get them to work, same as the shops in town. Did I mention food is so scarce due to the games design that its literally the single most expensive item in the game? I dropped over 1 MILLION silver coins on the cheapest food "Carrot soup"... i ended up with over 1,000 servers of it.. should have been PLENTY right? Nope. It gave 1 merchant a grand total of 4% fed.

Towns are the same way.. you cant use any of the shops to refine your stuff you just spent HOURS farming up.. because the shop owners cant afford to feed them, and/or there's no food to be found.

The "content" is a giant joke too.. mainly, there isnt any. No, that's not a joke. Im being serious.

"Endgame" (and I use that term loosely) is nothing but pvp, and pvp is nothing but zerg rushing a smaller zerg rush than you and hoping you can win. Even THIS could have been fun.. but in this company's infinite wisdom (re- mental retardation.) they decided the ENTIRE game is all point and click. No keyboard movement.. point and click.. because lazy ass game design is lazy. Just picture a giant massive pile of players.. all swarming around... in the center is the healer.. but you cant tab target him.. you cant type target him.. you have to click him.. while moving, as he's moving, in a giant zerg pile, and then you have to KEEP clicking him to use your powers. If you havent already bashed your face off a wall..

Then theirs (of course) the REAL purpose of the game.. buying gold for real life cash. THAT works flawlessly. On all platforms.

That's IF you can even login.. as the server is a total ****show atm. At one point, I was #3,845 in the Que... estimated wait time.. 3 DAYS to login.

And FInally.. the chat. Oh sweet lord in heaven the CHAT. You thought (insert game here) had a toxic community?? You know nothing. At one point.. they were openly discussing killing and raping small children. I asked if a GM was around. Surprisingly, one sent me an actual tell! When I asked wtf was going on, I got told .. and now Im QUOTING here... "The chat is kinda a free for all, unless its hate speech or personal violence threats, we dont do anything."

I literally have no words to describe my level of dumbfounded disgust I felt at that moment.

If you go to the Albion forums.. I put a post up there.. in which I described pretty much everything I just did here.. including the chat conversation (and relevant screenshots as proof.)

They EDITED MY POST TO REMOVE the pics of the discussion in open chat, and removed my discussion of it from my post... claiming it was "Against the rules" to "discuss such things on the forums."

Well THANK GOD everyone! We cant discuss raping and murdering children on the FORUMS.. but in the game.. go for it and have a great day... dont forget to buy some gold from the eshop.. carrot soup aint cheap ****

I could go on and on.. but I wont.. because the longer i type about this ripoff video game abortion.. the more I get angry about wasting $100 that I could have spent having my taint waxed with a rusty spork by a midget prostitute.

[icycalm]

One major thing they didn't mention is that you can't fight on horseback. You have to dismount first. The combat is fairly basic as it is, and mounted fighting would have increased the tactical depth a lot, so this is a major issue. It just seems the devs are not too experienced.