Theory

[icycalm]

I think the issue has always been and will keep being (although games studies seems to ignore this) whether digital gaming is another kind of deterrence machine ala Baudrillard (and other critical theory-inspired approaches to simulation, media and digital culture) and/or something else—a form of deterrence that implodes because after all the game as game is already trivial (the trouble comes when games are made to be about something . . . to be a sign of something—then we have banality).

(B. Simon, personal correspondence)

http://gac.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/2/4/405

The article is in fact terrible, but this little paragraph I quoted gets to the heart of the matter (although it does so rather more timidly than I did in my own article).

Messages in games, if not outright stupid, are banal. So game designers have three choices:

-No message
-Stupid message
-Banal message

[azukipanda]

There's no reason why a video game couldn't have the intellectual and emotional sophistication of a great film.

[icycalm]

Ah! The standard internet spastic-autistic reply. Throwing around big words without a clue what they mean, nor any desire to devote some time towards trying to find out. An approach that would have worked beautifully in any other place on the internet -- except this one!

Oh, well. I'll take it very very slowly for you kid, so pay attention:

There's no reason why a video game couldn't have the intellectual and emotional sophistication of a great film.

A videogame is a set of rules. Nothing more and nothing less. The only sophistication appropriate to a videogame is therefore that of rule design. As for intellectual sophistication... well, you see, computer programs are products of the human intellect, so obviously complicated computer programs will by definition have what you would call a great amount of "intellectual sophistication".

But you need to realize that the intellectual sophistication of a movie is a completely different beast from the intellectual sophistication of a game. The first refers to narrative design, the second to rule design.

Therefore, saying that "There's no reason why a video game couldn't have the intellectual sophistication of a great film" does not even make any sense, since you are comparing two completely different things. The sentence is logically inconsistent -- it's basically gibberish.

As for emotional sophistication... what the fuck is that supposed to even be? Which films would you call "emotionally sophisticated"? The ones that make you cry? If so, I would advise you to stop reading this website and start reading this one:

http://gaygamer.net/

More seriously, let me tell you something: making people cry in movies is a completely different thing than making people cry in games. In a movie, you cry when you see someone hit someone else with a sledgehammer in the face. You empathize with the fate of the person that got hit: this is where the tears come from. In a game, HOWEVER, you cry when someone hits YOU with a sledgehammer in the face. The tears come because IT HURTS, not because of empathy.

Are you catching my drift, son, or is all this still far too subtle for you?

If you are still not catching it, that's too bad. You'll either have to read my upcoming book, once it is published, or, if you don't want to do that for whatever reason, you will never understand what the fuck it is I am talking about here.

(You might still not understand after reading the book, but if you are still perplexed about all this it'll be the best chance you'll ever get.)

[Volteccer_Jack]

Wow. I was halfway through typing up a post about how the only way a game could express a "message" is through the game's rules, when I saw your, noticeably better, post.

I'm not really one for this "message" business, anyway. Between the creator's nebulous intentions and non-perfect (unless he can psychically transmit thoughts directly to you brain) ability to communicate ideas, presumably resulting in a final product which differs from their intentions in some way, and the audience's imperfect ability to understand even those ideas that reach them (unless they're psychic), I don't think anything approaching conclusiveness can be said about anything have a so-called "message". I'm basically going with this bit that T.S. Eliot said:

I imagine that some of the poets (they are all dead except myself) would be surprised at learning what their poems mean . . .

[azukipanda]

There is no need to go apeshit like a fucking ten year old every time someone says something you don't agree with. And here's a protip for you: don't call someone "kid" or "son" unless you know their age, because you will look like a moron if it turns out they're older than you. In fact, merely assuming as fact that they're younger than you, without any evidence to back it up, makes you look stupid. Assumptions should be made carefully.

Video games aren't just rulesets, they have narratives too. They have a story, dialogue, cutscenes and so forth (perhaps you feel that the narrative is not part of the game, but I don't make that distinction). By intellectual sophistication I was referring to the narrative, and I don't see why a video game couldn't have a narrative as good as those found in films (or very nearly). By emotional sophistication I mean the way a story causes or attempts to cause an emotional response in the viewer. That doesn't mean just crying, it can mean emotions like melancholy as well.

I don't quite understand your sledgehammer analogy. Why can't you empathize with the game's protagonist, or another character?

[icycalm]

There is no need to go apeshit like a fucking ten year old every time someone says something you don't agree with.

One more sentence like this and you are banned! Just sayin'!

Besides, no one went apeshit. This is how I post on a daily basis. I guess you must be used to places like gamefaqs, eh? Things work differently here, son. Better get used to it if you want to continue posting here.

And here's a protip for you: don't call someone "kid" or "son" unless you know their age

I know your age -- your intellectual age -- the only one that matters on the internet. I could see it just by reading your initial post.

without any evidence to back it up, makes you look stupid.

Oh, don't worry about that. There is no one and nothing on this planet that can make me look stupid.

Assumptions should be made carefully.

And there's no one else alive right now who makes them more carefully than I.

Video games aren't just rulesets, they have narratives too.

No they don't! At least the good ones don't! Narrative in a game is simply a symptom of bad design. I explain all this in an upcoming article titled "On Narrative Delusions".

They have a story, dialogue, cutscenes and so forth (perhaps you feel that the narrative is not part of the game, but I don't make that distinction).

Which is why your ideas on games are so ridiculous!

By intellectual sophistication I was referring to the narrative, and I don't see why a video game couldn't have a narrative as good as those found in films (or very nearly).

Ditto!

By emotional sophistication I mean the way a story causes or attempts to cause an emotional response in the viewer. That doesn't mean just crying, it can mean emotions like melancholy as well.

Crying is just an extreme form of melancholy. Anyway, I have already explained to you the deal with "emotional sophistication". If you still do not understand it, there's nothing more I can do for you than to advise you to wait for the book. I am not going to copy-paste an entire chapter into this thread for you.

I don't quite understand your sledgehammer analogy. Why can't you empathize with the game's protagonist

You cannot empathize with the game's protagonist, for fuck's sake, BECAUSE YOU ARE THE PROTAGONIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or with another character

The answer to this question is extremely complicated. If you can't grasp all the above, there is no way in hell you will ever grasp this. Again, best advice I can give you is to wait for the book.

[icycalm]

I don't quite understand your sledgehammer analogy. Why can't you empathize with the game's protagonist

You cannot empathize with the game's protagonist, for fuck's sake, BECAUSE YOU ARE THE PROTAGONIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This can in fact serve as a useful indicator of game quality. If you ever find yourself empathizing with a game's protagonist, it means you are playing a shit game. And the more you empathize, the shittier the game.

[icycalm]

It just occurred to me that you probably have no idea what the word 'empathy' means. Looky here (emphasis is mine):


empathy |ˈempəθē|
noun
the ability to understand and share the feelings of ANOTHER.

[icycalm]

To those reading this and wondering why azukipanda was banned: He posted a new, extremely disrespectful reply, and therefore had to go (I also deleted his reply). It's back to the IGN forums for him, I guess.

The interesting thing that occurred to me is that by changing a single word, his initial post can go from being complete gibberish to expressing something quite profound.

There's no reason why a video game couldn't have the intellectual and emotional sophistication of a great film.

vs.

There's no reason why a video game couldn't have the intellectual and emotional IMPACT of a great film.

And indeed, a great video game can have a much greater intellectual and emotional impact than even the greatest film of all time ever could.

Too bad it will be decades before we get anywhere close to being able to make such games. Even then, it is extremely doubtful whether anyone will want to play them.

[soulraiderx]

Nice catch. I agree with the majority of your article. However, one thing you should have mentioned was that if you briefly glance over the plot of a game (as it seemed you did with Shadow of the Colossus), yes, there will only be a handful of messages which any game can be categorized under. However, if you look deeper into a game, perhaps too deep for your own good, you can begin to uncover other unique plot elements (as I think you skimmed over with GTA3).

In any case, t'was a good read.

[icycalm]

"Unique plot elements", lol. Go back to kindergarten, child. This is a site for adults.