Moderator: JC Denton
by icycalm » 20 Jan 2009 01:47
by Vert1 » 20 Jan 2009 03:22
by EightEyes » 20 Jan 2009 03:39
by icycalm » 20 Jan 2009 23:47
EightEyes wrote:Given a competent player who is playing the game seriously and using a genre-appropriate input device, I think you'd be able to narrow it down to a fairly specific game style.
Since we define styles of games by "what the player does" in the game, it stands to reason that we ought to be able to discern the style of game by watching what the player is doing from moment to moment. The graphical context shouldn't be necessary. If it is, and we can't deduce game style from control input, then that might be a good reason to question some of our genre distinctions.
by To The East » 22 Jan 2009 03:45
by Afterburn » 22 Jan 2009 04:19
EightEyes wrote:Given a competent player who is playing the game seriously and using a genre-appropriate input device, I think you'd be able to narrow it down to a fairly specific game style.
Since we define styles of games by "what the player does" in the game, it stands to reason that we ought to be able to discern the style of game by watching what the player is doing from moment to moment. The graphical context shouldn't be necessary. If it is, and we can't deduce game style from control input, then that might be a good reason to question some of our genre distinctions.
by Vert1 » 22 Jan 2009 20:59
by icycalm » 22 Jan 2009 21:20
Vert1 wrote:Outside of certain genres, I think it would become impossible to name what kind of games people are playing.
Vert1 wrote:I'm surprised no one has mentioned that video game developers are given a control scheme they need to conform to (primary action button, secondary action, etc.).
Vert1 wrote:How would you tell someone is playing an STG if they are doing a run where they don't shoot (i.e. bullet eater mode in Ikaruga)? The game inputs might look like someone who is playing a game like Super Monkey Ball.
Vert1 wrote:Nobody has even mentioned how increased difficulty will most likely require players to speed up (altering) their directional inputs which could be interpreted as belonging to another genre.
by ganheddo » 11 Feb 2009 20:46
by bullethell » 13 Feb 2009 10:29
by icycalm » 25 Feb 2009 11:11
by Muzozavr » 25 Feb 2009 13:31
The very fact that a mouse is being used narrows down the genre considerably.
by icycalm » 25 Feb 2009 13:35
Muzozavr wrote:But can you percieve that difference with your naked eyes? A computer could tell, yes. What about your eyes?
Muzozavr wrote:Could you provide me an example of a genre that can't work with mouse being your primary way to control.
by icycalm » 02 Apr 2009 14:25
PROMETHEUS wrote:It is sometimes difficult to measure but 2-ALLing Ketsui is definitely much, much, much harder than clearing Galuda or Futari Maniac, for example. But yeah, I do think someone who can beat the hardest game thus has the ability to beat all the easier ones, if they use similar skills (for example Ikaruga uses more methodical skills whereas Caves require more danmaku skills and that's different).
by bunuelo » 06 May 2009 05:41
by Pilgrim » 14 May 2009 09:24
by bunuelo » 14 May 2009 10:50
by icycalm » 14 May 2009 19:02
bunuelo wrote:Moreover, there will invariably (in my experience) be clusters that are difficult to name. While "side-scrollers" may not be one such cluster, "puzzle games" may very well be -- in fact, what an expert calls "puzzle games" will most likely include several clusters, each of which is hard to name.
by icycalm » 12 May 2011 16:59
I wrote:I can't help you with your memories of me. I am not dense -- I am the most intelligent person you will ever interact with. That's all I have to say on the subject. The only thing people who call me dense, or any other names, accomplish is to lower my estimation of them since they are not smart enough to see the obvious. In your case, however, you can say whatever the hell you like. I have long ago pigeonholed you and I don't see any reason to ever change my estimation, especially given the limited nature of our interaction.
As for your question, it depends on what you mean by "substantial". Within the genre of shooting games, a change of perspective means a change of subgenre. That seems like a pretty "substantial" change to me. Viewed from the perspective of "action games" on the other hand, the change is indeed rather minimal. But we were not discussing things from that perspective in this thread. It's the same with something like Death Smiles and Espgaluda, etc. Even though mechanically many horis and many verts may appear, on the whole, extremely similar, they FEEL extremely different (again the "extremely" applies WITHIN the genre, outside of it you need to drop that word) -- and it is the "FEEL" that, when all is said and done, determines a game's genre -- as I will demonstrate at length in an upcoming essay probably titled "Pressing Buttons", or something to that effect. But you really should have caught on to what I am saying by now -- at least if you are not as dense as you've been acting in this thread.
tl;dr version: I won whether you like it or not, so suck it up, dude.
I wrote:And to be even more specific, read this thread:
http://forum.insomnia.ac/viewtopic.php?t=2528
So basically, to determine whether it is justified to call Pulsar Viewpoint's spiritual successor we would have to conduct tests to determine to what extent a typical Viewpoint input file is dependent more on the perspective or THE REST OF THE MECHANICS. If we find that it is the perspective (which is what I think we will find, as should be pretty obvious), then the MEAT of the game, its ESSENCE, is the perspective, hence a game WITHOUT this perspective CANNOT be called a spiritual successor, since it betrays the original game's SPIRIT.
And I repeat, you should be able to figure this out intuitively by playing both games and being an experienced gamer -- this, after all, is what reviewing is all about -- but in any case one day we'll get a computer printout that says "icycalm was right", and that will be the end of that.
by Showa » 22 Jun 2011 18:15
icycalm wrote:bunuelo wrote:Moreover, there will invariably (in my experience) be clusters that are difficult to name. While "side-scrollers" may not be one such cluster, "puzzle games" may very well be -- in fact, what an expert calls "puzzle games" will most likely include several clusters, each of which is hard to name.
This is because "puzzle" is not a videogame genre.