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Reality vs. Simulation

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Unread postby icycalm » 15 Feb 2010 23:55

austere wrote:I'm going to have to read "Beyond Good and Evil" or "The Birth of Tragedy" next before I can claim to really understand it, but your brief description really helps.


The Birth of Tragedy is Nietzsche's most difficult and least valuable book (it was his first, you see). That's why I put it at the end of Nietzsche's part of the list. Also his definition of the Dionysian there differs drastically from how he defines it in the later books. So steer clear of The Birth of Tragedy, basically, until you know what you are doing.

The concept of the Dionysian is described best in Twilight of the Idols and Ecce Homo.

austere wrote:My working assumption was that you already had these ideas somewhere (e.g. one of your books), but decided to explicitly destroy his premise by writing the essay. So in this case it wasn't really a necessary precondition, since we would have read something equivalent in your book later.


Yes, but with nowhere near as much clarity and detail, and certainly without as much humor, as you yourself already surmised. The clarity and the detail are consequences of this thread, and this thread is a consequence of that stupid book, you see. At the end of the day even artfan had a hand in this essay, because many of the examples and explanations to be found in it are a result of an effort to clear up all his confusions...

austere wrote:If my assumption was correct, then I understand why you said a single page from one of your books was worth more than all the essays on Insomnia! Does that statement still stand after the publication of this essay, though?


Dude, that comment was about Manufactured Realities. The first two books ARE the essays.
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Unread postby Afterburn » 19 Feb 2010 22:43

icycalm wrote:
austere wrote:I'm glad this Jesper Juul wrote all that crap, since we got this article as a consequence.


Now you understand Nietzsche's concept of the dionysian man. The above sentiment is a perfect expression of your dionysian nature. The dionysian man is he who affirms even the bad, the ugly, the terrible in existence, as a necessary precondition for all that is good, beautiful and elevated. "He is affirmative to the point of redeeming even the entire past" -- even little retards like Jesper Juul, lol.


Which is why Nietzsche also says (at least in the Birth of Tragedy, which I'm studying in my Philosophy of Art class right now, coincidentally) that the goal is a fusion between the Dionysian and Apolline, right? You can't have one without the other.
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Unread postby icycalm » 19 Feb 2010 23:02

"Apolline", lol. "You can't have one without the other", lol. -- Right? Right? Am I right? These two thingies: you need to have 'em both, right?-- Yeah dude! They are like peanut butter and chocolate, lol.

Banned for posturing.
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Unread postby icycalm » 03 May 2010 22:07

Philip K. Dick wrote:Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.


Dude's awesome. Pretty good definition too. He could have made a good philosopher if he hadn't been a crackhead.
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Unread postby Crow » 04 May 2010 02:38

Let me see if I got this right...

The problem arises when people start believing that the contents of their thoughts are real.

The thoughts themselves are real and so are all the objects outside of the human mind. Thoughts are real in the sense that they are some kind of mix of flesh, chemicals and electrical current in your brain. What you are thinking about, however, is always unreal. Your perception is always skewed, not to mention that you could be hallucinating things completely.

Language makes this even harder, because some people confuse the nametags they put on things with the objects themselves. A "wolf" made of ink or one made of light is not the same as a flesh-and-blood wolf. The fact that a "wolf" is made out of light doesn't make it any less real: it just means that it isn't a wolf. It's a simple mistake, but it's one some people make time and time again.
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Unread postby icycalm » 04 May 2010 18:04

A very good summary. I could make one (very important) clarification, but I won't right now. Just wait for future articles.


Edit: Note this for now:

Crow wrote:The thoughts themselves are real and so are all the objects outside of the human mind.


It is better to use "brain". "Outside the human brain." Mind and spirit and soul and words of this nature are too ill-defined and tend to make people hallucinate. Brain is a nice concrete object that no one can mistake for anything else.
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