dA's and chb's posts were correct. Naoshige muddled the issues a bit by confusing videogames, which we have been discussing, with games in general, which we HAVEN'T been discussing, though the things we are saying here could be applied to all games eventually with certain modifications (which we will not make here, because this is a thread about videogames).
Bradford wrote:I agree with losganados, that icy's point was that the 'childish,' or 'instinctive' reaction is to want more complexity, and more depth.
Not exactly the childish reaction,
but the reaction of the child who has attacked the game with so much passion that he has mastered it. Everyone else will NOT want a more complex game. They will be just as happy to play and replay the same game for all eternity, because, after all, they don't have what it takes to play the more complex one. Kind of like the rat who runs and runs on the wheel and to whom it never occurs to try and escape from it, because after all HE CAN'T.
Bradforf wrote:Ideally, you would like for a game to be such that, the more you play it, the better you get at it, forever, with no ceiling. The ultimate reward for playing a game more than everyone else should be being better at it than everyone else (individual variations in natural aptitude or talent aside).
Exactly. Only the last word should be "included" instead of "aside".
Bradford wrote:chb, you might want to consider what it is you even mean when you use terms like "immersive" or "escape from reality," as I think they are leading you off track. Likewise, I think that all of this:
chb wrote:(and wanting to forget the real world for a while is why we play games in the first place). Thus, it follows that the games that are more immersive are also the superior ones because they are better at doing what games are supposed to do: providing an escape from reality.
is false.
It is correct. This is also proved by the fact that if you think through complexity and immersion to the end, they are ultimately the same thing.
Think: what does "immersion" mean for a human being? How can it be improved? And what is the ceiling of this improvement?