Moderator: JC Denton
by icycalm » 22 Feb 2009 01:34
by Evo » 22 Feb 2009 13:16
by ganheddo » 22 Feb 2009 13:39
by icycalm » 22 Feb 2009 13:55
Ganheddo wrote:Just a question: Aesthetics and Mechanics are the same thing
Ganheddo wrote:because they're both patterns (a set of rules that work together to achieve some outcome), or because they always influence/impact each other?
Ganheddo wrote:Isn't the aesthetic responsible for how we perceive a mechanic, and vice versa, the mechanic responsible for what or how a particular aesthetic is conveyed to players? E.g. the mechanic of beating another player's figures in chess, is conveyed aesthetically as the gain (or loss from the perspective of the other player) of the figure, i.e. it is taken away and replaced by one of your own.
by icycalm » 22 Feb 2009 14:01
by taub » 22 Feb 2009 16:32
by MjFrancis » 22 Feb 2009 18:45
by icycalm » 22 Feb 2009 19:28
by Magnum Apex » 22 Feb 2009 22:35
by icycalm » 22 Feb 2009 22:43
Magnum Apex wrote:blah blah blah off-topic
by icycalm » 22 Feb 2009 23:04
3) "Cheap" tactics kill with minimal effort. In this respect, they're difficult to distinguish from just plain good tactics, which are aimed at making you efficient, effective winners. Good players play to win -- they're about winning, not whining. But scrubs become edgy and irritable when they're killed really easily. They know that killing a serious player should be at least a little bit hard, even if he is a scrub. This resistance to extreme efficiency is well-founded, in some respects. A tactic is great when it kills efficiently, but can justifiably be called cheap when it kills too efficiently. In our hypothetical MVC2 game with the "WIN" button, the best tactic is too efficient in just this way -- once people catch on, the game just becomes stupid. It's not fun, nor entertaining. It's Capcom's job to provide games that are fun for a wide range of playing ability without allowing the game to become transparent, and to degenerate into simplistic routines for winning, incapable of holding a serious player's interest.
Some answer cries of "cheap" with a different cute little catch-phrase: "If it's in the game, it's in the game." Well, of course. How could that not be true? That doesn't really advance the "debate", except by pointing out that by banning throws (or whatever they're calling cheap that day), what the scrubs are really doing is just playing a different game. So if MVC2 came equipped with that "WIN" button, it would obviously be fair to say that it's "in the game". But the previous point about actually hitting the button still being cheap also stands. That would just be a really crappy game. Which is what I think it really comes down to: "Cheap" is an aesthetic judgment.
by Volteccer_Jack » 23 Feb 2009 00:25
hey, what if I change the "Game Over" logo? How would THAT affect the mechanics?
by icycalm » 23 Feb 2009 13:21
Volteccer_Jack wrote:How about the amount of health an enemy has? An enemy that takes a while to kill will naturally appear "bigger & tougher" than one who goes down in one shot, even if the enemies are identical in every other way. Or, just making an enemy harder to knock over has the same effect.
by zinger » 23 Feb 2009 16:06
by icycalm » 23 Feb 2009 16:47
by icycalm » 23 Feb 2009 23:38
by zinger » 24 Feb 2009 09:59
by trickmasterG » 24 Feb 2009 11:09
by icycalm » 24 Feb 2009 11:45
trickmasterG wrote:Instead of playing the roll of power up this new mushroom, that looked identical to the standard one save for the color, would in fact kill you like a regular enemy.
by icycalm » 24 Feb 2009 12:00
trickmasterG wrote:A mere color change (purely aesthetic) has completely changed the effect of the item (mechanics).
by raphael » 24 Feb 2009 14:23
icycalm wrote:Try to come up with some extreme examples to illustrate how aesthetics can (and ultimately always do) impact what we call mechanics, and vice versa.
Frederik Jurk wrote:If you are one of those guys who claim they play shooters for survival and not for score, no matter if the game in question is clearly a SCORE shooter, you'll have no fun with this one. It surely is as fast as a Psykio shooter, but there's a lot more to it. If you ignore those cyborgs you're missing the point of the game, missing the action that comes from maniacally collecting them while dodging fire and shooting enemies, but not only that: You'll also be constantly assaulted by that "Clong!" piano sound -- your punishment for not playing the game the way the designers wanted you to.
by icycalm » 24 Feb 2009 15:07