East vs. West

[icycalm]

I wasn't saying that "Bro games" are attracting more general interest, I was saying that they are legitimately more artistically interesting than most of the games coming out of Japan right now--better made as well. Though I guess there's Nobi Nobi Boy, Platinum Games, Treasure, and Team ICO. A lot of old faces, but still a talented bunch. I suppose it's just been a bad...three-or-so years for Japanese games. I mean, Western games are going through a bit of a renaissance (titles like COD4, GTA4, Bioshock, and Little Big Planet), whereas the Japanese have been retreating to cynical and conservative strategies.

Definitely.

Poke around the internet a bit and you can actually find quite a few Japanese developers saying basically the same thing (and usually lamenting it). Japanese gamemaking has gotten incredibly conservative over the past eight years or so, though whether it's due to a lack of creativity and general national ennui or as a sort of hedgehog response to the encroachment of western gaming depends on who you ask.

I really don't know enough to declare one or the other -- anyone got input on that?

I remember reading some dude's Japanese blog when Oblivion came out, and while the translated section was all engrished up, he still managed to get his point across in a language close enough to english that I could follow the gist of what he was getting at, and...

Remember back when importing SNES games was what all the really hardcore people did? Like, your friend knew this one guy who had the "lost" final fantasy game with all the job classes and the story about the meteor and it was the one that America like totally never got to play and holy shit was it awesome? It reminded me a lot of that. This guy had a PC version of Oblivion. I believe it's actually out in Japan now but it wasn't at this point, I guess, because he had these very long and sort of misguided rants on there about how you simply couldn't find good games in Japan anymore because all anyone ever wanted to play was Dragon Quest and bullshit knockoffs thereof, and meanwhile these crazy Americans were making the Really Good Shit and god why do the sheeple have to keep shelling out for the same JRPG when there's such good stuff like this only a few mouse clicks away etc. etc. etc. ad nauseam.

It's weird to see that coming from the other end.

http://forums.insertcredit.com/viewtopi ... 785#286785

There's some truth in here, but also a LOT of stinking bullshit. I am going to have to write about this.

[mees]

I wish that guy hadn't used Oblivion, of all things, for an example. The Bioware/Bethesda RPGs gets a ton of undeserved praise.

Aside from companies like Epic (with Gears of War), Valve (Left4Dead, Team Fortress 2, etc), Blizzard (Craft this Craft that), Infinity ward (Call of Duty), Relic (Dawn of War, Company of Heroes), and Bungie (Halo), which get pretty much universal praise for their latest products (and by that I mean from fans, critics, and other developers as well), I don't really see too much happening in the West. And really, I'm sure you could find just as many important companies in Japan.

Plus, all of those companies basically either do FPS or RTS.

[icycalm]

I wish that guy hadn't used Oblivion, of all things, for an example. The Bioware/Bethesda RPGs get a ton of undeserved praise.

That's one of the things that's wrong with his post.

Aside from companies like Epic (with Gears of War), Valve (Left4Dead, Team Fortress 2, etc), Blizzard (Craft this Craft that), Infinity ward (Call of Duty), Relic (Dawn of War, Company of Heroes), and Bungie (Halo), which get pretty much universal praise for their latest products (and by that I mean from fans, critics, and other developers as well), I don't really see too much happening in the West.

I'd say that's more than enough. These are mostly basically PC games disguised (and downgraded) to work on consoles, and, trust me, I can remember much, much less productive PC gaming periods in the past. And note that you have left several other important games out, such as Supreme Commander and some of the MMOs (the latter being important due to innovations in their design, not for their quality as games per se -- a subtle distinction I will explain at length in some future article).

And really, I'm sure you could find just as many important companies in Japan.

Yes, but important in what? It's all a question of genre, and as I explained in an article a while ago, all genres are definitely NOT created equal.

Plus, all of those companies basically either do FPS or RTS.

There's also racers and sports games in general (though in those genres I think there's generally a sort of parity between East and West), and like I said MMOs -- in which the West definitely has the upper hand -- and turn-based strategy games, in which I am not exactly sure what's been happening recently, though if I had to guess I'd say the West is ahead. And then there's one or two new adventure games coming from the US?

So, yeah, you always have to take it on a per-genre basis, and there are many genres in which Japan still dominates. If those genres do not appeal to some people, that's another matter. And an even further point, which no one will dare touch, or even acknowledge its existence, is the question of which genres exactly are more important for the future of gaming. If you think this matter through, and decide that the most important genres are the ones in which the West currently dominates, then you would be justified in saying that -- on the whole -- the West has eclipsed Japan in terms of innovative game design. But no one has done this.

But this still wouldn't matter at all to people who were not into those genres...