Upscaled, filtered bullshit

[filterpunk]

With all the ports and emulated versions of old games hitting lately, I've run across a lot of discussion about these games being upscaled and filtered. I don't have a lot to use for comparison, but Street Fighter Alpha Anthology has a switchable filter option, so I decided to see if I could notice any real difference between the two.

After about 10 minutes of playing with things unfiltered, I switched back to the default filtering to check things out with the filter turned on. After one match of that, I couldn't take it anymore. Using it made things look like someone had blurred everything and actually kind of hurt my eyes to look at for long. It might be my imagination, but I could swear it even made things lag a little bit. Kudos to Capcom for providing the option to turn it off, but I get the impression that this isn't a common option.

Anyone know of a list of ports, particularly PS2 versions of arcade and Neo-Geo games, that have been or will be subjected to these so-called enhancements? Recap has mentioned quite a few over at Gamengai and other places, but I haven't seen much in the way of compiled lists.

[icycalm]

Anyone know of a list of ports, particularly PS2 versions of arcade and Neo-Geo games, that have been or will be subjected to these so-called enhancements?

They are not called enhancements you know, in fact they are called nothing, and that is the problem. People have no idea this is going on. If the rags and publishers were touting them as enhancements it would be a lot easier to counter them, because people would already know what you are talking about. As things stand, most don't even believe that what you are saying has any basis in reality.

It's important here to distinguish between the three main 2D graphics issues:

1. You have the high-res games which use upscaled sprites, and which suck just as much in their original versions (arcade/console/PC) as in their ports. Examples: KOF XI, Tenka, all iterations of Melty Blood, Disgaea 3, the Xbox 360 ports of Idea Factory PS2 SRPGs, etc...

2. Then you have the arcade games which are low-res 240p, but which get upscaled and filtered in their port releases. The filtering here actually helps make the upscaling less noticeable, so it's not a bad thing. The bad thing is upscaling in the first place, but if you are absolutely DEAD SET on upscaling then good filtering is preferable to no filtering. This is also a taste issue... Examples are the Mushihime-sama and Ibara PS2, ports, practically all SNK PS2 collections (if I am not mistaken), all Taito PS2 compilations, Giga Wing on DC, etc. etc.

3. Something else that's noteworthy is when console ports of high-res arcade games do not feature a progressive scan mode. In that case you get a 480p game in the arcades whereas the home port is displayed interlaced. Can't come up with any examples at the moment -- perhaps the Xbox GG ports?

So yeah, a list of games falling in each of the above categories would be nice. When I have some time I'll look for Recap's posts in other forums and try to compile the info and post it here. Alternatively, we could just ask Recap to give us whatever text file it is where he keeps the appropriate lists. I am sure he has them.

[dementia]

perhaps the Xbox GG ports?

I can confirm these are 480p 100%

[filterpunk]

They are not called enhancements you know, in fact they are called nothing, and that is the problem.

Based on a lot of forum posts and reviews I've seen, you're probably right that most people don't know it's going on, but I would argue that many of them would cite it as an enhancement and typically do when they are aware of it. Mainstream gamers have been bitching about aliased, pixelated graphics for years and the chance to resolve that "problem" is a big draw for a lot of people. IGN's review of the PS2 port for KoF 2002/2003 mentions "higher resolution graphics than a straight-up arcade port, although the original visuals are available in all their pixelated glory."

There are dozens of reviews like this, where the mention is brief, but lacking just enough detail that it sounds like an enhancement. People see "higher resolution" in that line and that sounds good to them because it's what electronics stores, game companies, their friends, and everyone on the fucking planet has been hammering into them since DVDs took off back in 2000 or so. It's continuing with the 360 and PS3 too, with a lot of people taking advantage of their internal upscalers and running backwards compatible games at 480p and 720p. Some of them even bitch that they can't upscale everything as high as 1080p, but they still continue to do it. A/V fanatics and audiophiles eat this shit up too, pouring thousands of dollars into audio resamplers, AD/DA modules, and video upscalers. I don't know if this kind of thinking is the majority viewpoint per se, but quite a few people have been conditioned to believe that higher resolution + smoother image = good, every time, all the time. Look no further than HDTV owners who stretch 4:3 movies and games to 16:9 without a care in the world...and isn't that part of what Ebert was recently ranting about? :p

1. You have the high-res games which use upscaled sprites, and which suck just as much in their original versions (arcade/console/PC) as in their ports.

I actually bit the bullet earlier and pre-ordered KoF XI. I could swear I saw that the filtering can be turned off, but I guess I'm stuck with the upscaling. I'm a little confused with the Atomiswave thing, though. Did they draw everything in low-res, then upscale it? If so, what the hell for? Why not just draw it at 640x480 (or whatever the monitors are for the Atomiswave) if that's the only resolution it's being played at?

2. Then you have the arcade games which are low-res 240p, but which get upscaled and filtered in their port releases. The filtering here actually helps make the upscaling less noticeable, so it's not a bad thing.

This is largely what first brought my attention to the issue and honestly, I prefer the raw upscaling to the upscaled and filtered look. Maybe it's my astigmatism (I have my own bilinear filter!) or something, but I wind up squinting and trying to fight off a headache the whole time. Turned it off and while it's not perfect due, things look sharper and more defined, which I greatly prefer to blobby-looking sprites.

So yeah, a list of games falling in each of the above categories would be nice. When I have some time I'll look for Recap's posts in other forums and try to compile the info and post it here. Alternatively, we could just ask Recap to give us whatever text file it is where he keeps the appropriate lists. I am sure he has them.

That would be awesome. I started to compile a list of my own, but I stopped when I realized that it would probably work best on a website. Might be worth putting together an arcade ports database of sorts, where you can easily compare every available version, differences from the original arcade release, text options (useful for importers), etc. Might also be too ambitious to work on when school is going on, but we'll see. My main concern is just knowing what games are upscaled and if they're filtered, whether ir can be turned off or not.

Sorry this turned out so ridiculously long, but it's an issue that's been bugging me all week.

[icycalm]

1. You have the high-res games which use upscaled sprites, and which suck just as much in their original versions (arcade/console/PC) as in their ports.

I actually bit the bullet earlier and pre-ordered KoF XI. I could swear I saw that the filtering can be turned off, but I guess I'm stuck with the upscaling. I'm a little confused with the Atomiswave thing, though. Did they draw everything in low-res, then upscale it? If so, what the hell for? Why not just draw it at 640x480 (or whatever the monitors are for the Atomiswave) if that's the only resolution it's being played at?

Ok, let me explain this a bit more clearly.

KOF XI is a high-res game. There is no need for filtering or upscaling, and the port looks exactly as the arcade game (assuming it supports progressive scan, that is).

The problem with KOF XI, Tenka, MB, etc. is that the developers wanted to make high-res games without investing the necessary time to draw high-res sprites. So they drew brand-new high-res backgrounds, and then simply took the old, low-res sprites and upscaled them. Do you see? This has absolutely nothing to do with, say, the upscaled/filtered PS2 port of Mushihime-sama, for example.

I'll start compiling a list in this thread sometime next week, perhaps. Too damn busy right now.

[filterpunk]

KOF XI is a high-res game. There is no need for filtering or upscaling, and the port looks exactly as the arcade game (assuming it supports progressive scan, that is).

From what I've seen, the PS2 port supports 480p. Too bad most PS2 owners probably don't have component cables.

Anyway, how is it truly a high-res game? You said yourself that the backgrounds are high-res, but they've used low-res sprites and upscaled them. Sure, it's the same as the Atomiswave release, but you're still talking about upscaling low-res sprites.

I'll start compiling a list in this thread sometime next week, perhaps. Too damn busy right now.

Looking forward to it.

[icycalm]

Anyway, how is it truly a high-res game?

I am not sure how to explain this better. It is truly a high-res game because the optimal way to see it is in high-res. The sprite upscaling is regrettable, but that doesn't change the fact that we are talking about a high-res game.

[filterpunk]

Anyway, how is it truly a high-res game?

I am not sure how to explain this better. It is truly a high-res game because the optimal way to see it is in high-res. The sprite upscaling is regrettable, but that doesn't change the fact that we are talking about a high-res game.

No, we're not. The character sprites are low-res raster images drawn at a native resolution of 304x224 or 320x224. Raster graphics can't be upscaled without severe aliasing problems and using interpolation to smooth things out just blends adjacent pixels at further expense to existing details.

It's optimal in that it's true to the Atomiswave original and was designed to look this way, but we're still talking about low-res images being resampled to be viewed at a higher resolution (aka upscaling). You could call it "fake high-res," but apart from the new backgrounds, none of those old raster graphics were intended to run at those resolutions. If they had been, none of this would be an issue because no upscaling would've been necessary because SNK would've drawn them at an appropriate resolution.

I'm not completely doom-and-gloom about it like Recap is, but I still don't agree with the practice because it's fundamentally stupid, which is pretty much the exact opposite of optimal.

[icycalm]

Man, the only thing I can reply in regards to that post is "O RLY?".

But joking aside, what you need to realize is that these games are high-res games, and that the best way to see them is on a high-res display. They should therefore be called "high-res games". This is in contrast to low res games, which are best seen on low-res displays. I don't know how to put on this on simpler terms, so if you are not getting it let's just drop it.

And, honestly, I would appreciate it if you dropped the lecturing tone. It's a bit annoying. If you want to lecture someone you can go here.

[CosMind]

after reading this thread earlier in the week, i got into a discussion with a buddy on the subject, and he pointed me to this write up:

http://postback.geedorah.com/extra/a_matter_of_visual_precision.htm

interesting and insightful.