[WII] [360] [PS3] No More Heroes

[JoshF]

Man, stylized visuals and narrative will get you far with a lot of people. Too bad Suda51 makes games instead of movies.

I can't imagine how bad this game would've been bashed if it had neither of those things, and people were looking at the nuts and bolts and not going "ooh, ahh" over the front-end.

Also, horrible voice acting is horrible voice acting even if you say "fuck."

[icycalm]

Here, I'll answer a few of this clown's "points":

The boss battles are inarguably the entire point and driving focus of the game

I guess it's highly unfortunate that they suck then!

whereas your review seems to suggest that the distractions around Santa Destroy are presented with equal importance?

Yes, because you easily spend half your time with the game in "GTA mode".

The game's structure is not "exactly" the same, you even mention this in your own ******* review.

Actually, it is exactly the same. The only difference is the boss battles, and even they can be viewed as merely another type of mission.

You have to get money for the next battle because it's a fundamental element of the storyline.

No, child, you have to get money for the next battle because the designers couldn't come up with anything better for you to do.

[icycalm]

I don't think I can trust a guy who gave a perfect score to a game called Night Slave with pornographic lesbian cutscenes.

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthre ... ost4003941

Thanks for destroying insomnia's credibility, Macaw!

[JoshF]

That's why I don't give ratings on my site. People will actually have to read the reviews before creating opinions of them that way.

[icycalm]

Josh, no matter what you do, people will misunderstand you. You can give them extra reasons to actually read what you have to say, but if they don't know how to read, or if they don't know how to think, the result will be the same. And besides, the kind of person who thinks that the score is supposed to summarize the review in a number, and therefore skips straight to the summary, is beyond hope anyways.

[Macaw]

Too funny.

[Flying Omelette]

(how the hell did that site get more than one writer)?

This is my favorite quote from that topic. It's indicative of:

1. People who are so homogenized that they assume everyone else everywhere else is or should be just as homogenized.

2. People who think the community they hang out at is the only one that exists or ever existed, or is representative of all internet communities.

Circa 1998-2000, I used to think that type of thing was exclusive to N-Sider, but it seems the same type of stupidity crops up (almost) everywhere.

Also, this comment...

Anyway, this game is totally worth it. The lengths to which it goes... A must-buy for me. It's just too bad that this will pass me by harder than Portal.

...I totally don't understand. The last sentence makes it sound like he hasn't played the game and never will get a chance to...yet he's saying it's "totally worth it" and a "must-buy"? If we're just to assume all games that are coming out are going to be awesome, then when why do we even need review sites? Mental affirmation?

[icycalm]

There's no making sense of what these people are saying. Or of what they are trying to say but failing miserably, because they never bothered to pay attention to their English teachers at school. And the internet is full of them. Here, another thread full of nonsensical posts:

http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?p=6876672

He compares games that it isn't even trying to be.

lol, indeed

[Flying Omelette]

The great thing about that is that those are the kinds of people who, in a few years from now, will be saying that the game is old and outdated and was only good for its time, etc.

[JoshF]

Those Boss battles look so hard. I love it.

Looks like the ringleader hasn't even played the game. :lol:

[MAXCHAIN]

There's no making sense of what these people are saying. Or of what they are trying to say but failing miserably, because they never bothered to pay attention to their English teachers at school.

I often suspect that the heart of the problem is that no one reads anymore.

[Jedah]

I suggest to put an end to this. The review stays as it is, the quality of the game stays as it is. Nothing changes by arguing with insults. If someone enjoys it, then fell free to present here the parts of the game you like. Could you please all stop making noise for things that don't deserve it?

[icycalm]

Hey Jedah, long time no see. The guys who were making noise have been banned, so all we are doing now is laughing at them. Everything is A-OK.

The review stays as it is

This made me smile.


In other news, there MAY be hope for the human race yet:

Can't help but think this guy's review will be the more truthful, I mean the NGamer review barely mentions how the game plays, the mechanics of the fighting etc. I prefer reviews that actually talk about the gameplay not how a "game is so in love with being a game". Yeah, but what is the gameplay like? Is it difficult? are there lots of moves? is the fighting just random swinging of the remote? are the sub-missions enjoyable etc etc?

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/fo ... 679#739679

[CosMind]

The boss battles are inarguably the entire point and driving focus of the game, whereas your review seems to suggest that the distractions around Santa Destroy are presented with equal importance?

actually, what the review seems to suggest to me is that, since the boss fights are indeed the focus of the game, then perhaps some modicum of game design ought to be applied to them.

thing is, i don't read reviews for opinions. and, i'm not sure why so many people do. rather, i read them to try and determine of the game design (if there actually is some) piques my interest enough to check out.

sure, the review gets a bit heaty and negative, but it never fails to clearly communicate the fundamental elements that make up the game - and express how they operate.

one of the reasons i appreciate your reviews, icy. keep feeding the appropriate info. it's rare and much appreciated.

[icycalm]

thing is, i don't read reviews for opinions. and, i'm not sure why so many people do.

Because that's what they are for. Contrary to popular belief, reviews are NOT about describing how the game works*. They are about discussing how it works in a critical manner. Of course, to do that you often end up describing how parts of it work. But this is not absolutely necessary. It is quite possible for a reviewer to ASSUME that the reader already knows how the game works, and launch off straight on the criticism. In fact, this is exactly what I will do in my upcoming review of Sid Meier's Civilization. If you think that I will sit down and regurgitate its gigantic manual for you you've got another thing coming.

Really what we are talking about here is the difference between a review, whose main purpose is to inform purchasing decisions, and a critique, which is timeless and concerned only with the essence of the thing being examined. The better film reviews do a good balancing job between reviewing and critiquing, and the best film reviews are 100% critiques.

Anyway, I will write about this at some point. It's an important matter because I only know a handful of people who realize what's going on.

Having said all the above:

keep feeding the appropriate info. it's rare and much appreciated.

I hope you are now able to see that this comment can be seen as slightly offensive by me. I hope you can see that I am trying to do MUCH MORE than just "feed you the appropriate info".

sure, the review gets a bit heaty and negative

You make it sound as if it's a bad thing. I mean OF COURSE it gets negative because I hated the damn game. What should I have done, fucking lie to people?




*for that you have the official website, the manual, and Wikipedia

[icycalm]

By the way, they brought the US release date forward. January 22.

[CosMind]

keep feeding the appropriate info. it's rare and much appreciated.

I hope you are now able to see that this comment can be seen as slightly offensive by me. I hope you can see that I am trying to do MUCH MORE than just "feed you the appropriate info".

oh, yes, i do see how my comment could have been interpreted as offensive.
and, i honestly apologize. i had no intention of implying that your reviews only fed me technical information. what i meant was that your reviews do feed that info - which is incredibly rare, and i find invaluable when trying to decide whether or not i'm willing to invest my time in checking out a game.

so, i owe you an apology.

sure, the review gets a bit heaty and negative

You make it sound as if it's a bad thing. I mean OF COURSE it gets negative because I hated the damn game. What should I have done, fucking lie to people?

and, again, i have failed to properly communicate. i don't feel it's a bad thing at all that you were down on the game. i was responding to the fact that there's this load of people who are hating on you for doing so. my intention was to illustrate that even though you are being negative on the game, you are backing up your statements by clearly articulating why you feel the way you do - which you explain by breaking down the flaws you find in the game design/mechanics.

now, how often do you find a review that supports its opinion with reasoning? perhaps 1 in 100000000? if you're lucky...

and that, good sir, is the reason i appreciate your reviews.
they are thoughtful and educated and informitive :)

sorry again for generating any friction. it's always the last thing i prefer to do.

[lolwtf]

Theres nothing like an amatuer review. (At best)
I think I first realised that this review was done by an idiot when i read the professional opening line of

'This game fucking sssssssucks and I fucking hated almost every moment I spent playing it.'

I thought I stumbled upon a forum, but nope, it was actually a 'review'.

Not only was this the most empty review, which constantly referred to Grand theft auto, of all games, but the person who wrote it, was a prick on his own forums!

The forum was what lead me to register, and no doubt be banned, because of my disagreement on an opinion of a game.
Ive never been on a forum in which someone can disagree, and put up good points, and then be instantly banned..

Seriously, I couldnt believe it.

It may point out the low amount of users using the forum, none of which even have over 100 posts, except the mod, whom obviously has used everyone of his posts to argue against the constant critism, and multiple opinions.
I read something about credibility on the forums.

Credibility?
I think you, Icy, have destroyed all credibility. From being an absoloute prick.

If I thought you lived anywhere near me, I would put time (and money) into finding you.

I assume that any time gaps you get inbetween counter-acting critism about your site and reviews, you use to write more biased, ignorant reviews.

Judging by your simple-minded and predictable replies to critism, I suppose you will quote individual passages from this post, and counteract them with more of your single minded opinions which dont actually apply, and then.. ban me.

Because I'd really post on this website again anyway.

I just thought Id use some of my own time to bring this bullshit down, although only to you, Icy, is being critized and insulted [i]fun[/i], and Im assuming that this is because you dont want anyone else on this forum to think this would effect you. Again, only you would give a shit what people think of you on the internet.

By the way, I gritted my teeth and wrote 'yes' to this site being the best in the world, so I could give me opinion, which will no doubt be 'wrong', 'uneducated' and 'fucking ssssssstupid'.

Go browse some other forums to see that people share these exact same opinions of your reviews.

[lolwtf]

Oh wait up, you are laughing at us?

ha. haha.

Oh my, theres nothing to laugh at but this website sink into the ground from you very own idiotic comments.

I just had to post again.

hahaa

[Topdrunkee]

LOL, it amazes moi how Suda 51 is able to attain such a vocal fanbase.
Especially since most of them have never actually played his games before.
(Other than Killer 7.)
I used to get a lot of hate mail from my website whenever I told people that I wasn't interested in NMH, because the concept of the game just didn't sound interesting enough to me.

Unlike most I've have played the majority of Suda's library.
I had my doubts that he could actually pull an action based game off.
Considering that he's more of an adventure game type of developer.
(Like Ragnar Tornquist.)
A Suda game only intrigues I whenever it's heavily story based.
It's usually the only positive quality about his games. (Besides the music.)

The funny thing about these clowns is that to register in this forum you have to reply 'Yes' to a question that asks you if Insomnia is the best game site in the world.

LOL, when I saw this. I just had to finally register for an account.
(I've been lurking here forever.)
My only prob is that I actually answered "Hell yes!!!"
Damn thing told moi that my answer was wrong.

Theres nothing like an amatuer review. (At best)
I think I first realised that this review was done by an idiot when i read the professional opening line of

'This game fucking sssssssucks and I fucking hated almost every moment I spent playing it.'

I thought I stumbled upon a forum, but nope, it was actually a 'review'. '

That's part of the reason that I love Insomnia.ac.
They don't sugar coat what they feel. They tell it like it is.
I guess that's why they call him Icy Calm, because he tells the COLD HARD TRUTH.

How can you honestly label someone an amateur when they write nobel prize winning ish like this
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/

I mean damn. I'm a pretty jaded ass mofo, but that editorial has I bowing down, because this website knows their shit.
I just wish that they had a magazine that I could subscribe to.
So I can take their articles with moi where ever I go.

It's insane that anyone who professes to know anything about videogames would compare the action of a tight 2D platformer to a shallow, gimmicky 3D action game. It's NGJ at its worst.

What can one expect? It's written by Tim Rogers.

Some say that Killer7 shouldn't of had so much combat and should of been more like the other Kill The Past games.

Ah nah part-nah. You're quoting moi all wrong.
Being like the other Kill the Past games is the last thing you want to do.
(Game mechanics wise at least. Story wise Kill the Past games are exceptional.)
The problem with the combat imo, is that the enemy a.i f'ng sucks.
What I've always been saying is that Killer 7 should've made it's battles supplement the story rather than just serve as some random level with bits of story thrown in.
In other words K7 should've taken a cue from Kojima's "Policenauts".

In Policenauts you get a fast paced light gun style battle sequence that directly relates to the set piece of the current scene that you are playing through.
I even uploaded a vid of Policenaut's gunplay to show you what I'm referring to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd7DPqxPps4

Notice how even the reloading is kinda similar to K7.
(I think K7 actually ripped it off of Policenauts in the first place.)
I'd preferred it if K7 had played like this, because I can't stand those dumbass puzzles in K7.

I have this vague suspicion that GHM is nothing without Mikami. All their pre-Killer 7 games more or less sucked, and Killer 7 was made with Capcom under Mikami's supervision. Then they were left alone again to do this game, and it sucks.

Hmm, you maybe right about that.
I never noticed.
Even though I feel that Killer 7 is a god damn horrible game.
I do admit that it at least had more playability than Suda's previous games.
I think Suda's problem is that he doesn't know how to make a proper adventure game with interactive elements in it.
What I propose is for someone to shove a copy of Deus Ex down Suda's mouth.
If only for him to finally get a taste of what a true story based video GAME feels like.
Suda writes some phenomenal scripts, unfortunately he usually forgets to make a game to go along with it.

Everything Mikami touches turns to gold.

[MAXCHAIN]

I like how that poster rags on the review and never provides any justified criticism.

[Topdrunkee]

Dale wrote:
It's odd that you'd just assume that the other GHM games sucked. Did you play any of them?


Dale, you should know by now that I don't assume anything. Of course I've played most of them. I plan to have reviews of every GHM game up on the site within the next couple of months.

I actually own and operate a Killer 7 fan site.
(I don't even like the game, but I love the writing.)
I've actually played & own most of GHM's games. I can safely say that they do indeed suck.
(Save for Shining Soul 2. That game was a lot better than the first one at least. It's a pretty decent dungeon crawler.)

I plan to have reviews of every GHM game up on the site within the next couple of months.

Mr. Icy, a question if I may.
I'm curious how do you grade games such as Silver Case & Flower, Sun & Rain?
IMO, those games have some of my favorite plots of all time.
(I feel that the plot of SC can go toe to toe with most novels. In fact one of the chapters from Silver Case is only available as a novel.)

However at the same time. I do acknowledge how horrible they are if they were to be graded as games.
(I see Silver Case as more of a graphic/sound novel, & FSR as an art house film in the form of a game.)
I don't write reviews for my site, because if I were to do so.
I would end up giving every single one of Suda's games a score that would be below a 5 out of 10.
(If they were to be judged as pure games.)

Hell the lone review that I have hosted in my site is actually one that is bashing Michigan.
http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.c ... eview.html
(It's not written by I, but I doubt that my opinion would differ much from hers. )

Man, stylized visuals and narrative will get you far with a lot of people. Too bad Suda51 makes games instead of movies.

Quoted for truth. If there's one thing that I pity about Suda. Is that he's been in the gaming biz for years, and he still doesn't know how to make a proper video game.
IMO Suda should just stick with Adventure games, because his narrative & musical direction is obviously his strong suit.

If there's one thing that I've noticed is that Suda's adventure games are actually still popular amongst Japanese adv gaming fans.
http://gh.vis.ne.jp/vote/p_vote.cgi
http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.c ... dvgame.jpg

Whereas his other titles such as Killer 7 & Michigan are pretty much ignored.
http://killer7.3dactionplanet.gamespy.c ... vgame2.jpg
IMO this is mostly due to how sophisticated Suda's writing style actually is when he writes an adventure game.
(Most ADV games live & thrive through their story.)
I feel sorry for Moonlight Syndrome. It ranked in 133 like Killer 7.
I actually like that game... ahem I mean I actually liked that Japanese psycho horror love story movie that masqueraded as a game.

Of course there's that little debate about whether or not adv games should even be considered games in the first place.
(I view them as Electronic interactive media.)

[icycalm]

User lolwtf has been banned. Can someone tell me what I have to do to stop these people from registering here?


So anyway, Topdrunkee, welcome to the forum. Cool-looking site you've got there. Where did you get the scan of Mikami you posted here?

I'm curious how do you grade games such as Silver Case & Flower, Sun & Rain?

I prefer not to discuss here games which I plan to review in the near future. Other people are free to talk about anything they want, but I'd rather keep all my comments for the review. Keeps people checking the frontpage, you know :)

However at the same time. I do acknowledge how horrible they are if they were to be graded as games.

Everything reviewed on this site is reviewed as a game, so...

Of course there's that little debate about whether or not adv games should even be considered games in the first place.

This is the first time I hear of this. I don't see why they shouldn't be... Can you link me to an article that argues otherwise?

[icycalm]

How can you honestly label someone an amateur when they write nobel prize winning ish like this
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/

Lolling at the Nobel prize comment. Think I should send them the article?

Also, he is quite right that I am an amateur. Nobody pays me to write this stuff.

Also!

sorry again for generating any friction. it's always the last thing i prefer to do.

Nah, there was no friction, man. I kinda figured it was a phrasing issue so I wasn't really offended.

[Dale]

Yeah I see what your saying TopDrunkee. Maybe they should have put in shorter more intensified battle segments instead of drawn out item collecting. Some people love stuff like that though. Another thing they could have done is make the game completely linear like TC but keep the same combat fundamentals.