[360] [PS3] [PC] [MAC] Braid

[BlackerOmegalon]

Tim Roger's Braid review! It's Action Button's GotY 2008 (tied):

http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=499

I didn't think that AB would be this predictable, you'd almost think they were satirizing NGJ. The word "feelable" is used at one point. The only negative is that he discusses the game too much.

The fourth stage introduces what players call “shadow rewind” (crucial: the game itself doesn’t “call” anything anything)

In Portal, the game progression’s “story arc” was icing on the cake; in Braid, due to the hard-science-like nature of the inner workings of the level design, the “plot” is an absolute necessity.

They make fun of it in the review, but I still haven't read a Braid review that's better than Soulja Boy's one-minute review on Youtube.

[icycalm]

I played Braid for about 15 minutes. From what I saw in that time, the plot is in no way an absolute necessity. Perhaps it becomes so later? I doubt it. Probably Tim talking out of his ass again.

[icycalm]

I like how most of his games of the year are basically puzzle and/or mini-games. That's the future of gaming according to the artfags: puzzle and/or mini-games. But that's what happens when you have the brain-size of an ant.




EDIT: Oh, okay, he has Gears of War 2 as well. Too bad it wasn't really a new game!

[icycalm]

What's worse about the artfags ejaculating over puzzle and/or mini-games, is that it causes a strong reaction to normal people, so when it's time for them to review these puzzle and/or mini-games, they can be often far too harsh on them. Braid, for example, could very well be worth ***, maybe even **** (disclaimer: based on my 15-minute playtime -- final results may vary wildly), but I would loathe to be seen rating it so high. This validates once again Nietzsche's proposition, that "the best way to harm a cause is to defend it with false arguments". All the artfags ever do is drag through the mud everything they get their hands on, and then it is impossible for anyone else to see those things clearly (since they are covered in all that mud).

[BlackerOmegalon]

Many modern puzzle games and mini-games have retro graphic or dynamic music synced to pulsating lights, which are both sure-fire ways to get NGJ-types to love a game.

[icycalm]

Braid, for example, is in the same genre as Lup Salad. Lup Salad has a story too, though I am afraid it's not an arfagotry one. Why is no one calling Lup Salad GAME OF THE DECADE!!! If I had a choice between Braid or Lup Salad right now, I'd go with the latter. So, for me, Lup Salad is a better game.

WTF does this all have to do with art or games of the year? You simply take games belonging to the same genre and compare them. Where's the sense in comparing Braid to Portal? Or Lup Salad to fishing? Or Pikmin to having sex?

Meh, artfags.

[KarlCarlson3]

I played Braid for about 15 minutes. From what I saw in that time, the plot is in no way an absolute necessity. Perhaps it becomes so later? I doubt it. Probably Tim talking out of his ass again.

If you mean the game having a story at all, it's not. The story is Blow trying his hardest to put what he thinks is a meaningful story into a fucking puzzle platformer. It'd be better as just a game that uses its classic 2D platformer look to screw with your head as well as be an homage.

I do still think it's worth playing, though.

[icycalm]

Wow… that review really kicked ass. I’ve got a question, though: you say that the only thing preventing this game from best-game-ever status is its marriage to existing game conventions, and that’s definitely an issue, but how would you have avoided that?

http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=499#comment-9811

By not making a game. He could, for example, have written a novel. If he had done that, then Tim Rogers would have proclaimed it the best game ever.

[icycalm]

Let me elaborate on this.

The latest trend among the artfags is a hatred against "genre conventions", or more generally against conventions in general.

But what the artfags fail to realize is that rules = conventions, so when you say that you want a game without conventions, you are saying that you want a game without rules, i.e. you don't want a game.

And indeed, the artfags never wanted games. In fact, they fucking hate games, and this is apparent in everything they write and everything they do. One day soon I will analyze their psychology and expose it for everyone to see.

[Volteccer_Jack]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/203-Braid

I'm not a fan of Zero Punctuation in general, but I thought this review was quite good.

[dA]

I've been busy with Braid lately and couldn't help myself explaining some aspects, hopefully explaining the reaction from these "artfags" somewhat more. Not that I'm taking their side or something, just an explanation of the underlying ideas.

I played Braid for about 15 minutes. From what I saw in that time, the plot is in no way an absolute necessity. Perhaps it becomes so later? I doubt it.

Braid, for example, is in the same genre as Lup Salad. Lup Salad has a story too, though I am afraid it's not an arfaggotry one. Why is no one calling Lup Salad GAME OF THE DECADE!!!

No, the story isn't a necessity, but story and rules are strongly linked in Braid. It is very much in the tradition of Jason Rohrer: artistic expression through rules. The conflict of the gamer with these rules should lead to the feeling the creator tries to express (though it's not quite that simple with Blow: he distances himself from messages but wants to ask questions). Blow explained this clearer in a lecture of his.

How can this be seen in Braid? Globally there's a development both in story and in rules. Amongst the first books in the game is this:

"What if our world worked differently? Suppose we could tell her: 'I didn't mean what I just said,' and she would say: 'It's okay, I understand,' and she would not turn away, and life would really proceed as though we had never said that thing? We could remove the damage but still be wiser for the experience."

This can be linked quite directly with the time travel mechanic ("What if you could turn back time?" Well, you can in this game.). But every world adds another rule that restricts and complicates this, shows another side the human experience of time. The player has to adapt to the rules in a way that is comparable to the story. Time and place are literally linked to each other in Chapter 4, for example: the position of all the enemies depends on the position of the player in the level.

Effective? Well, I don't have the idea that most lovers of this game really know why they love it. But to me it shows an understanding of the medium far beyond most big-budget developers. And at the very least it has some interesting puzzles.

I like how most of his games of the year are basically puzzle and/or mini-games. That's the future of gaming according to the artfags: puzzle and/or mini-games.

If a developer wants to express something with rules, it's far easier to that with a 2D puzzle/mini-game than a 3D shooter. Less rules and more control, which enables them to be more effective with their capabilities.

[icycalm]

No, the story isn't a necessity, but story and rules are strongly linked in Braid.

Much like in Space Invaders then! You know, like, when the aliens invade? And you have to, like, shoot them down?

It is very much in the tradition of Jason Rohrer: artistic expression through rules.

Do you even ever, like, stop to think about wtf you are saying? "Artistic expression" through rules? Wtf is that supposed to even mean?

The conflict of the gamer with these rules should lead to the feeling the creator tries to express

Much like in Wolfenstein-3D then! The struggle against the Nazis in the castle leads to the feeling of the struggle against the Nazis in the castle that the creators tried to express!

(though it's not quite that simple with Blow: he distances himself from messages but wants to ask questions). Blow explained this clearer in a lecture of his.

"Distances himself from messages", lol. "Wants to ask questions", lol. He explained it clearer in his "lecture", lol.

If the fuckface wants to ask questions he can just drop the retarded game development and ask his retarded questions, lol.

And P.S. Let us know if and when he gets the answers to his questions. We'll be holding our breath until that happens.

How can this be seen in Braid? Globally there's a development both in story and in rules.

"Globally", lol. You just gotta love the artfags.

But to me it shows an understanding of the medium far beyond most big-budget developers.

An understanding of which "medium"? The medium of puzzle-platformers?

If a developer wants to express something with rules, it's far easier to that with a 2D puzzle/mini-game than a 3D shooter. Less rules and more control, which enables them to be more effective with their capabilities.

Read this, retard:

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/massage_my_ass/

... and spare us your bullshit theorizing. Keep it for your blog or gamefaqs.

[dA]

By medium I mean the medium.

Artistic expression: having questions, ideas etc and not expressing it directly but through other means? Like trying to get them to ask these questions themselves by using the mechanics in a game? Expressing themselves artistically? That's what I mean with that anyway.

I have read the article some time ago and wasn't theorizing. I was explaining Blow's intentions. You can dismiss them or not, that's not my call.

[icycalm]

By medium I mean the medium.

You don't even have a fuckin' clue what a medium is. Videogames are not a medium -- they are simulation.

Artistic expression: having questions, ideas etc and not expressing it directly but through other means?

Artistic expression is not having questions. Having questions is just having questions. If you have questions, and you are not smart enough to answer them yourself, you simply look for someone who might be able to and ask him. End of story.

Like trying to get them to ask these questions themselves by using the mechanics in a game?

What a retarded way of going about this! Why not just outright ask them your stoopid questions?

Expressing themselves artistically? That's what I mean with that anyway.

Explaining things "artistically"? Because you could also explain them "inartistically"?

The internet does not have lols big enough to artistically express my artistic laughter at the level of your artistic retardation.

I have read the article some time ago and wasn't theorizing. I was explaining Blow's intentions. You can dismiss them or not, that's not my call.

Explaining Blow's intentions is not theorizing? Well, maybe it's not if you are Blow. So I guess you are Blow then?

[icycalm]

Expressing themselves artistically? That's what I mean with that anyway.

Explaining things "artistically"? Because you could also explain them "inartistically"?

I misread you there. This is the correct response:

Expressing themselves "artistically"? Because they could also express themselves "inartistically"?

[icycalm]

My meaning being that in a culture which venerates pieces of shit as works of art, it is impossible to express yourself inartistically.

[Worm]

I listened to that lecture by Blow when I was trying to get a handle on what the whole "art games" buzz was about. Here's a snippet so people can have a laugh at how he thinks games should be analyzed:



Yeah. These people want to make statements like, "The stomping of goombas represents the justification of violence in the pursuit of a goal," or "The repetition of the levels symbolizes the futility of life and history's tendency to repeat itself."

If this crowd has its way, video game criticism will end up reading like this: http://www.artcritical.com/blurbs/JSMcMillian.htm

...at the very least it has some interesting puzzles.

Just want to highlight how, once again, these people end up insulting games with their praise.

[dA]

I still want to point out that what I theorized (even though it may be done poorly) and Worm posted, can provide a better understanding of the game's design.

Expressing themselves "artistically"? Because they could also express themselves "inartistically"?

You got me there.

I see I'm not quite ready for discussion yet, so I'll leave it at this.

[icycalm]

I still want to point out that what I theorized (even though it may be done poorly) and Worm posted, can provide a better understanding of the game's design.

How are you going to point this out? By pointing it out?

In that case, I too would like to point something out: that pigs can fly.

...

One thing I always liked about art, is that the worse a craftsman is at his craft, the more he feels the need to defend himself against accusations of poor craftmanship with vague claims about "art". A Caravaggio for example, doesn't need claims of art: the thing is simply stunning to anyone who has eyes. Similarly with a Ferrari, a dish at a four-star French restaurant, a game by Sid Meier, a novel by Stendhal, a piece of music by Mozart, and so on.

But then you get the Cubists, who couldn't paint worth a shit, and the worse they were at painting, the more they felt the need to make extravagant claims about "hidden meanings" and the like. As time goes by, the meaning becomes more and more hidden, until not even the "artist" is quite sure what it is, or even if it exists! -- And that's all the better, because it keeps the public in suspense! Is there a meaning? And what can it possibly be? Oh the excitement! Oh the stupidity! Oh poor humanity!

In the end, all these people did indeed become artists, of course, but a special kind of artist: the con-artist, so to speak. And there is no greater human art than this.

So yeah, indie hipsters. We should put aside our awesomely complex strategy/fighting/shooting/FPSing/RTSing games so as to play their little childishly simplistic arthouse videogames in order to discover their hidden meanings, lol.

[icycalm]

It’s a peculiar form of movie madness crossed with academicism, this lowbrowism masquerading as highbrowism, eating a candy bar and cleaning an “allegorical problem of human faith” out of your teeth.

http://insomnia.ac/essays/trash_art_and_the_movies/

[Follicleman]

Frankly, you guys lose any semblance of credibility when you use a term like "artfag".

[EightEyes]

There's a bit of discussion about this sort of thing here:

http://forum.insomnia.ac/viewtopic.php?t=2215

...if you're interested.

[icycalm]

You see some of the universe's greatest riddles solved on this website, and you consider our "credibility" gone because of a simple pejorative? Only an artfag would think that way.

Besides, the very concept of "credibility" was invented by artfags for artfags. If you actually think about it (an impossible proposition for an artfag, I know, but still), it is a concept presupposing astounding levels of stupidity. It's as if a person accumulates "credibility" by saying correct things, so that, later on, his ideas do not have to be examined any more to determine whether they are correct or not: if his "credibility score" is high enough, they are automatically accepted as the gospel. But that is how peasants think! Every idea should be thoroughly examined regardless of where it's coming from, because even geniuses make mistakes, whilst even children can on occasion stumble on the truth.

In short, "credibility" is a concept for morons.

[Jedah]

Braid = Bad Mario Clone with "artistic" style.

[icycalm]

It's not a Mario clone. Mario was pure platforming, this is puzzle-platforming. However, from the little that I played, I'd say that the platforming is very weak because of the rewind function. Hence, whatever merit the game has, if any, must come from the puzzles. So the question is: how smart and difficult to solve are the puzzles? Given the fact that everyone I know of who played this game finished it in one or two afternoons, I'd say not very.