Tower Defense

[icycalm]

I've recently been playing Fuuun! Dairoujou, and because I've been enjoying it so much I'd like to learn more about the tower defense subgenre. I checked Wikipedia's page, and it seems the genre's history is quite brief. The latest examples on the DS seem to be Ninjatown and Lock's Quest, both of which I'll be trying out later today. I'd also like to give Squeenix/TOSE's Crystal Defenders a try when I get the chance (which is out on mobile phones, XBLA, PSN and WiiWare -- none of which I have access to right now).

So if anyone reading this is well versed in the genre I'd appreciate a quick critical rundown of as many titles as you are familiar with (and especially the Flash/indie ones because I have a strong aversion to these formats, so it's hard for me to muster the willpower to give them a try...)

My main question is: are all these games as simplistic as Dairoujou? If not, which is the most complex one at the moment?

[trickmasterG]

GemCraft is the most complex tower defense game that I have seen yet. Most of these games are indeed very basic. I've noticed that when I find a good new TD game my interest level drops pretty fast after the initial high.

GemCraft has an overworld map with many different levels, with each one having different scenarios and obsticles. When you buy the towers they are initially worthless because they have to be fitted with gems. There are several different colored gems that each have a different effect. The gems can be combined and upgraded to enhance their abilities. You can also just pick them up and drop them as bombs.

An experience system allows you to choose skills that can make the items more powerful, cheaper, faster acting, etc.

GemCraft - Chapter 0 is the prequel to the original Gem Quest and is superior in every way.

http://armorgames.com/play/3527/gemcraft-chapter-0

You can now set traps and place the gems within them. This weakens the attack power of the gems but enhances the effects such as poison, slow, and mana drain. Chapter 0 is also much harder than the first one. Towards the end of the original you can plow through the end stages without much thought, because of how powerful you eventually become. I am about 2/3 of the way though Chapter 0 and it is still a struggle to beat the new levels. Each stage you clear in normal mode will allow you to replay though them with changed scenarios to make them much harder.

I've played a few dozen flash based Tower Defense games. GemCraft -Chapter 0 makes the majority of them insignificant.

[Molloy]

I don't think you'll find much in the way of complexity when it comes to tower defence. They tend to be fairly repetitive and one dimensional by design because they're mostly played by casual gamers who find any complexity intimidating.

Most RTS games have offense, defence and economic management. So tower defence takes out the offence, it usually makes the defence completely predictable (you play zombie like AI which does exactly the same thing at the same time every game) so it ultimately comes down to economy management. The Supreme Commander tower defence mod was good fun for a weekend because the game's economy was much more complicated than is typical for a tower defence game but it fell out of popularity pretty quickly due to how repetitive it was.

[icycalm]

I realize the genre is quite restricted in terms of complexity by the very nature of the rules that define it. Many genres are like this. This doesn't change the fact that a fan of the genre wants to find the most complex example of it, and this is especially true in the less complex genres, such as this one.

GemCraft is the most complex tower defense game that I have seen yet.

What are some of the other ones you've seen? A statement like this doesn't sound very convincing coming from someone who only gives a single example... I mean, fair enough, perhaps it's not worth mentioning all the Flash games you are comparing it to, but have you played any commercial releases? If so, what do you think of them? If not, well, maybe you should. Chances are they'll be far more worthy of your time and attention than the Flash ones, don't you think?

[Bucky]

There are two families of tower defense games out there - one in which the enemies have the run of the whole field and your towers are barriers that they need to navigate around, and one in which the enemies travel along a fixed path and you place towers near that path. (Shorthand:'Mazing' and 'Non-mazing' variants). A good example of the former would be Desktop Tower Defense, while a good example of the latter would be Gemcraft.

From my experience, mazing variants tend to be slightly deeper, as there is tension in tower placement between dealing damage and delaying enemies.

[icycalm]

In that case Dairoujou would be in the non-mazing category. And yeah, I can see how mazing games would tend to be deeper, though I haven't yet tried any of them.

[Crea]

Most RTS games have offense, defence and economic management. So tower defence takes out the offence, it usually makes the defence completely predictable (you play zombie like AI which does exactly the same thing at the same time every game) so it ultimately comes down to economy management.

Most flash based tower defense games are designed only for single player mode, but for the tower defense games found on WarCraft III and StarCraft (via custom maps on their Battle.net service) multiplayer modes are more common and allow players to choose what units (referred to as creeps) spawn on your enemy's side of the field, adding an element of offense. Economic management is still a huge part of the game because the creeps must be purchased, but many TD maps have creeps with varied abilities like some with auras that strengthen nearby creeps and even ones that don't run through your maze but instead focus on attacking your towers.

In addition, these games often have visible waypoints that the creeps must pass through in order, which enables mazing in a way that forces creeps to take extremely long paths to pass every waypoint.

I haven't had any experience with commercially released tower defense games but tower defense games on Battle.net are much more complex than any flash-based tower defense I've played.

[icycalm]

I haven't had any experience with commercially released tower defense games but tower defense games on Battle.net are much more complex than any flash-based tower defense I've played.

You mean "tower defense mods on Battle.net". I know you've already mentioned this at the beginning of your post, but it pays to express yourself clearly at all times. The reason these mods are more complex than stand-alone TD games is because they are built for far more complex game engines, and therefore employ at least some of that extra complexity in their own designs. Designers who set out to make stand-alone TD games, on the other hand, lack the drive/resources to build from scratch engines of the level of a StarCraft or a WarCraft III -- so what we end up getting is fairly shallow engines, and thus fairly shallow games.