[WII] [360] [PS3] No More Heroes

[icycalm]

9/10 in Edge 185. Goes to show that Edge is no different from the rest of them, as far as I am concerned.

I am really curious to find out what people in this forum think of this game. If anyone picks it up I'd appreciate your impressions.

[CosMind]

on that note, 2 other UK outlets have also scored it over 90...

(NGamer UK and n-Revolution Magazine UK)

[icycalm]

Doesn't the 'N' in their titles stand for "Nintendo"?

[CosMind]

Doesn't the 'N' in their titles stand for "Nintendo"?

i believe it's more likely to stand for "No clue".

[hiya]

Lol, you guys are brilliant. Just brilliant.
At the same time, though, it could be said that you guys are total assholes that nitpick posts to the point of triviality just to prove how "stupid people can be". This is my first time at any forum, and I must say that if Insomnia is "the best in the world", then what is all the rest like? First off, icycalm's review of No More Heroes is fine by me. It's how he feels about the game, after all. However, at the forums he plays tyrant and his 4-5 others constantly suck his dick because, oh no, they might be banned, maybe! Holy shit man, all three people banned here were banned because they defended themselves. Must be convenient to surround yourself with people who will almost certainly never disagree you over everything! Nice totalitarian establishment here, har, har! Well, this is my first post, and I know I will be banned like the three, then my post will be picked apart by you so that you can laugh with your fellow bitches all the while ensuring that I won't come back to defend myself. See you icycalm and the rest of you folk, and I wish you luck in your happy little world!

P.S. You are too high and mighty for your own good, icycalm. Is it because you enjoy the anonymity of the Internet? Knowing there is almost no consequence to all of this? Or, is it because you didn't you get enough love from mommy? You don't have to answer. I won't be around for it. :D

[icycalm]

Holy shit man, all three people banned here were banned because they defended themselves.

That's very courageous of them. They can now go defend themselves on some other forum where I am not paying for the webspace and the bandwidth.

I wish you luck in your happy little world!

I don't need luck. What I need is a phpbb mod that requires users to have a certain minimum IQ level before allowing them to register.

Is it because you enjoy the anonymity of the Internet?

WHAT ANONYMITY YOU FUCKING DUMB SON OF A BITCH! MY FUCKING NAME IS PASTED ALL OVER THIS FUCKING WEBSITE FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

ALSO: BANNED.

And by the way, hiya's name is Cindy Park (lol) and her email address chocolatestripe@hotmail.com. Somebody please add her to a bunch of scat porn spamlists.

[Flying Omelette]

People who complain to others about using anonymity on the internet are always, always, ALWAYS people who are posting anonymously themselves. Thank you for providing me yet another link of proof, Mr/Ms. Hiya. :P

People who are incapable of making logical and rational arguments can keep coming up with new fads to replace them (trust me, we've heard them all), but it really is time to retire this one now.

[Yellowman]

That review... sucked. You went in looking for a GTA game in a game that was in no way like GTA, it's like someone reviewing a Batman movie poorly because it doesn't have Superman in it. What the fuck did you expect. Looking forward to banning/poist deletetion because this website...fuckkkingg sssucccks or whatever retarded shit you started your review with!

[User has been banned for being stupid, impolite and disrespectful. --icy]

[Flying Omelette]

I'm looking forward to poist deletetion, too. There's nothing like a good poist deletetion to get your day going.

[icycalm]

Quotes from the Edge review:

a game that knows it’s a game and wants you to know that it knows you know.

it is proof that games can love their roots and use the quality of being a ‘game’ to give form to their stories – and excel at it.

Edge magazine, ladies and gentlemen. The most respected print publication in our little hobby.

[MAXCHAIN]

The great thing about edge is that they want you to think that they are reputable, but they don't want you to feel like you know that they want you to think that they know it. Another thing I like is how they use the qualities of being a 'magazine' to bring you 'words' that form 'sentences' that give you 'ideas'-and they 'excel' at it.

[Sear Me]

I read the reviews by IGN, Gamespot and Gamespy and the funny thing is, they all find the same flaws that icycalm discussed in his review. But for some unfathomable reason, they say that the game is STILL good, because combat is "simplistic, but so fun and stylized that it often drew a crowd around our desks while we played during office hours, and it's as much fun to witness second hand as it is to actually play".

LOL

[zinger]

Hahaha!

[Flying Omelette]

I read the reviews by IGN, Gamespot and Gamespy and the funny thing is, they all find the same flaws that icycalm discussed in his review. But for some unfathomable reason, they say that the game is STILL good, because combat is "simplistic, but so fun and stylized that it often drew a crowd around our desks while we played during office hours, and it's as much fun to witness second hand as it is to actually play".

LOL

A lot of game reviews, both professional and amateur, do that. I've been discussing it for years. They basically amount to paragraphs and paragraphs of complaints and then a conclusion that says, "But who cares because it's fun!"

My favorites are the reviews that tell you not to worry about the flaws because they'll all be fixed in the sequel.

[icycalm]

I think I should merge this thread with the lol thread:

ignore this shit site New super mario bros 2/5 HAHAHA

it gets way better! look at all of the games he has reviewed! one of them that he gave 5 stars is a side scroller with lesbians!

The tone he has throughout the review lack the objectiveness and integrity that you would find elsewhere.

http://gonintendo.com/?p=34088

Too many good quotes from that page.

[CosMind]

I read the reviews by IGN, Gamespot and Gamespy and the funny thing is, they all find the same flaws that icycalm discussed in his review. But for some unfathomable reason, they say that the game is STILL good, because combat is "simplistic, but so fun and stylized that it often drew a crowd around our desks while we played during office hours, and it's as much fun to witness second hand as it is to actually play".

LOL

interesting - and i just saw that the game is published in the u.s. by ubisoft.
i wonder whether or not the "final opinion" and numerical scores these cats are handing out have anything to do with the news in this blurb:

http://boards.1up.com/zd/board/message?board.id=games&message.id=543094

[icycalm]

I just love reading clueless people's comments about my reviews. Sorry for spamming this thread guys (I mean, hell, it's my thread right? I should be able to spam it if I want to!), but I want to save them somewhere for easy reference.

Pardon for the double post, but MY GOD. I paid a visit to insomnia to see what all the hoopla was about. Every game that should have recieved a four or five-star score got one's and two's. (case in point, No More Heroes.) Everything that recieved a four or five were games that I had not even heard about in all my years. Shame on you Kotaku, for including insomnia in Frankenreviews.

http://kotaku.com/348326/frankenreview- ... heroes-wii

[MAXCHAIN]

If that guy hasn't heard of it, it's not worth anyone's time.

[Dale]

I've never seen such a big back-lash like this before. I think it's because that their are(Semi) Hardcore gamers that are not only fans of Suda's most recent games but have heard of or frequent this site. If you had told someone before you publicly released the NMH's review that you were going to give it a bad score I bet the could have predicted that something like are current situation would have went down. Just judging by the traffic of various fanbases and who knows who.

I fucken hate the mentality of people not giving games they've never heard of the light of day.

[sarsamis]

I am really curious to find out what people in this forum think of this game. If anyone picks it up I'd appreciate your impressions.

I'm too lazy to type out my thoughts on it again, so I'll paste a little review I wrote of it on another forum:

If you’re at all interested in current gaming, you already have a pretty clear idea what this game’s about, so I won’t go into depth here, but the basics are as follows: You’re an otaku named Travis Touchdown who won a lightsaber (I don’t give a flying rat’s ass what non-copyrighted term they used. It’s a lightsaber) on an online auction and took on a job to kill an assassin in order to get some money for a video game or something. Well it turns out that there’s a ranking system in place for assassins and this dude Travis killed was #11. Holt shit, that means you’re now a top-ranked assassin! This of course means that his next order of business is to take out the 10 above him and become #1. And to make things even better, the woman giving you your missions is really hot, and Travis, who’s obviously a virgin, might actually score some pussy from her if he becomes #1! HOLY SHIT!!!

The one hitch in all of that is the fact that it costs money to have these matches scheduled, so you send a great deal of time doing random chores for freaky cult people and taking on random assassination missions, many of which involve trying to suppress a certain pizza chain from growing. This aspect of the game was likely included out of spite since Suda 51 hates you, a lot.

If you've somehow neglected to realize it by now, the game's goofy. Oh, and notice my use of the word "game" there. Yes, this is actually a video game! Far from the interactive student films Suda is known for.

So yeah, that’s the premise in a nutshell. Before going on to covering individual aspects of the game, and because I have no idea where else to throw in this little tid-bit, I’ll inform you of the fact that Suda 51’s inspiration for his protagonist came from imagining Johnny Knoxville wielding a lightsaber, which is amazing! Seriously, the world of gaming would be a far better place if more developers thought like that. Goichi Suda is a genius, plain and simple.

Combat is simplistic in the sense that it’s no Ninja Gaiden, DMC, GOD HAND, etc, but it’s not completely brain dead. Travis has a sizable number of moves at his disposal and there are counter systems in place. On top of all that, there are a few hidden techniques that are fun to discover, and quite rewarding to pull off. Some mastery of strategy is required, although unfortunately, the skill requirement seems to peak out on the 3rd boss fight in the game. It comes back a bit around the end, but if you beat the 8th rank boss fight, you’re set as far as skill mastery goes and shouldn’t have an overly difficult time with the game from then on.

Assuming that the lack of depth can be looked past, the only complaint I have with the combat would be that dodging often messes up the camera and can be incredibly disorientating at the worst possible times. Not related to the combat engine itself per se, it also irked me how the conventions of guard breaking, and the possibilities for wrestling moves performing said breaks yields, fall apart in boss fights because bosses don’t guard. They just happen to be invincible for seemingly no reason most of the time. Now there are coherent means of stunning and performing wrestling moves on bosses, but it varies a bit from boss to boss, and feels very different compared to your bouts with normal enemies.

Speaking of normal enemies, they’re pretty funny. They usually make no sense at all and do nothing to justify their presence in the levels, but no one in their right mind should give a damn about that. If anything, the nonsensical enemies just add to the charm of it all. If you’re a good person who has played GOD HAND, you’ll see the obvious influence its enemies had on those found in NMH. Never do they succeed in being as amusing as GOD HAND’s thugs, but you can tell there was some effort put in towards reaching that end.

The graphics weren’t nearly as distinctive feeling as those found in Killer 7, but I could still dig its aesthetic and found it visually pleasing. My complaints in said field come from how inexcusably shallow the game is at times. For instance, you can knock down telephone polls with your bike, but the cable’s they’re supposedly holding up remain in the air, completely unaffected. Santa Destroy as a whole just reeks of laziness, though the insides of some of the shops look decent enough, as well as Travis’ home. I just wish there was an option to inspect his various anime dolls. I also think it would have been more rewarding if the game’s first 50 collectables were action figures for his shelves as opposed to bland trading cards of wrestling masks.

And damn, can the M rating just be lifted to 18+ already? Being able to take a glimpse of Travis’ running gag of a porn collection he’s always being called about might’ve been nice. And perhaps with a slightly higher rating, the game could’ve been more honest about the recharge motion that's mandatory in order to refill the battery in your lightsaber. It tells you to swing it from side to side, but it accepts any motion, including the masturbatory one he’s obviously doing, and that you will end up doing anyways. I mean, come on.

Now coming to the game’s soundtrack, there were some tracks I really liked, and I don’t recall ever being displeased by what I was hearing, but I felt it was in some dire need of more variety. I think at least 50% of the game is spent hearing that main theme song from the trailer. The only positive thing I can saw in regards to that would be that it adds a sort of coherent, uniform feeling to the game, although that doesn’t quite justify the music repetition all together. A few more songs would have made it a great soundtrack. As it stands now, it’s a decent one.

With the core elements out of the way, I’ll comment a bit on the game’s writing. For the most part, the writing is good. It’s funny, the characters were almost all enjoyable, and the rants from your employers in particular do a great deal to soften the blow from the tedious labor sims. This game has an abundance of charm that you won’t forget anytime soon. And there are plenty of little weeaboo cultural references and Easter eggs spread throughout. If I were the kind of person who squeals when they’re immensely pleased, this game would have had me embarrassed to play around others. And I imagine a break during the Destroy Man session would have been necessary for the sake of calming down. I just wish that “shining armor and fine words” line had somehow found its way into the final release.

There’s really only one place where I felt the writing was bad. Trying my best not to spoil anything, I will tell you that it falls apart in the end. It really made no sense at that point and the plot twists that occurred had no relevance to anything preceding them. Of course, if you’re a fan of Suda51’s work (read: you fanwank Killer 7 a lot and maybe wiki’d his other games), you were probably expecting a certain level of incoherence, but this never succeeds in being anything but incoherent whereas his disregard for common sense in Killer 7 comes across with a certain wit to it all along with the possibility that it may all actually mean something, coupled with the utter hilarity that ensues as you try to figure out what that meanng may be, or if it's there at all. That’s well-crafted nonsense right there. That nonsense, at one point or another, made me think in ways that few other games ever had. It may have very well been bullshit, but if so, it was bullshit with enough depth put behind it to make it worth analyzing. NMH lacked this depth, so in response to the bullshit it fed me I said “oh, ok” and remembered Commander Andy of the Cosmos yelling “Cop out! Cop out! Cop out! (repeating more times than I care to type it out)” at the end of that one episode of Space Ghost: Coast to Coast you, the reader, probably don’t remember (but more power to you if you do). The relevance to that beloved scene obviously being that the game’s incoherent ending felt like a huge cop out. Old man Suda finished his game, realized it wasn’t weird enough, feared the backlash he’d get from angry internet dwellers along with the fact that he may lose some niche-cred for making something sensible, and decided to do some lazy, last-minute undermining of his game’s story.

In regards to the ending though, all this bitching’s solely story based. The boss battles in the end were pretty great. Protip: Be sure to buy the MKIII before entering the last stage, and when the time comes, select the “view real ending" option (I have no idea why you’d pick anything else). You’ll be pleased with the results. Just as you’ll generally be pleased with the experience you’ve just had by the time you’re done with it. It’s an undeniably fun, rewarding game, and one of the few really great reasons to own a Wii. I don’t feel like slapping a number rating on this, but if you insist on there being a fraction of some sort to sum up the last 1,500 or so words in this post:

Not quite perfect, but a damn good time/10

I think I was being a bit optimistic there, but hey, like so many others havealready said, I enjoyed it.

[icycalm]

Thanks for the review. I am going to give you my thoughts on it.

The biggest problem I had was that most of it was devoted to describing and evaluating the story. This in game reviewing is the equivalent of a movie reviewer spending most of his wordcount summarizing plot. It's the boring part of the review, the part that is used to pad out the review because the reviewer either has nothing interesting to say but needs to meet a certain minimum length requirement, or because he is too dumb to realize that his review is missing the point. In the end, the amount of plot recapitulation a reviewer does (both in game and movie reviews) is one of the things that separate good reviewers (like me and Ebert, say) from bad ones. The ultimate goal is to say the absolute minimum necessary in order to make your OTHER points, which are the important ones. The same goes for graphics/sound/music/acting/cinematography/photography/set design/unlockables and whatever else is of secondary importance.

And to make myself a bit more clear, here are the parts of your review which should have been condensed in as few sentences as possible -- certainly no more than a medium-sized paragraph. Note that the only reason I forced myself to read this stuff is because you made the effort to post it in my forum, and for that at least you deserve my full attention.

If you’re at all interested in current gaming, you already have a pretty clear idea what this game’s about, so I won’t go into depth here, but the basics are as follows: You’re an otaku named Travis Touchdown who won a lightsaber (I don’t give a flying rat’s ass what non-copyrighted term they used. It’s a lightsaber) on an online auction and took on a job to kill an assassin in order to get some money for a video game or something. Well it turns out that there’s a ranking system in place for assassins and this dude Travis killed was #11. Holt shit, that means you’re now a top-ranked assassin! This of course means that his next order of business is to take out the 10 above him and become #1. And to make things even better, the woman giving you your missions is really hot, and Travis, who’s obviously a virgin, might actually score some pussy from her if he becomes #1! HOLY SHIT!!!

The one hitch in all of that is the fact that it costs money to have these matches scheduled, so you send a great deal of time doing random chores for freaky cult people and taking on random assassination missions, many of which involve trying to suppress a certain pizza chain from growing. This aspect of the game was likely included out of spite since Suda 51 hates you, a lot.

Before going on to covering individual aspects of the game, and because I have no idea where else to throw in this little tid-bit, I’ll inform you of the fact that Suda 51’s inspiration for his protagonist came from imagining Johnny Knoxville wielding a lightsaber, which is amazing! Seriously, the world of gaming would be a far better place if more developers thought like that. Goichi Suda is a genius, plain and simple.

I just wish there was an option to inspect his various anime dolls. I also think it would have been more rewarding if the game’s first 50 collectables were action figures for his shelves as opposed to bland trading cards of wrestling masks.

With the core elements out of the way, I’ll comment a bit on the game’s writing. For the most part, the writing is good. It’s funny, the characters were almost all enjoyable, and the rants from your employers in particular do a great deal to soften the blow from the tedious labor sims. This game has an abundance of charm that you won’t forget anytime soon. And there are plenty of little weeaboo cultural references and Easter eggs spread throughout. If I were the kind of person who squeals when they’re immensely pleased, this game would have had me embarrassed to play around others. And I imagine a break during the Destroy Man session would have been necessary for the sake of calming down. I just wish that “shining armor and fine words” line had somehow found its way into the final release.

There’s really only one place where I felt the writing was bad. Trying my best not to spoil anything, I will tell you that it falls apart in the end. It really made no sense at that point and the plot twists that occurred had no relevance to anything preceding them. Of course, if you’re a fan of Suda51’s work (read: you fanwank Killer 7 a lot and maybe wiki’d his other games), you were probably expecting a certain level of incoherence, but this never succeeds in being anything but incoherent whereas his disregard for common sense in Killer 7 comes across with a certain wit to it all along with the possibility that it may all actually mean something, coupled with the utter hilarity that ensues as you try to figure out what that meanng may be, or if it's there at all. That’s well-crafted nonsense right there. That nonsense, at one point or another, made me think in ways that few other games ever had. It may have very well been bullshit, but if so, it was bullshit with enough depth put behind it to make it worth analyzing. NMH lacked this depth, so in response to the bullshit it fed me I said “oh, ok” and remembered Commander Andy of the Cosmos yelling “Cop out! Cop out! Cop out! (repeating more times than I care to type it out)” at the end of that one episode of Space Ghost: Coast to Coast you, the reader, probably don’t remember (but more power to you if you do). The relevance to that beloved scene obviously being that the game’s incoherent ending felt like a huge cop out. Old man Suda finished his game, realized it wasn’t weird enough, feared the backlash he’d get from angry internet dwellers along with the fact that he may lose some niche-cred for making something sensible, and decided to do some lazy, last-minute undermining of his game’s story.

Apart from that, I also have a few comments on the rest of your review.

So yeah, that’s the premise in a nutshell.

The preceding two huge paragraphs are one hell of a gigantic nutshell where I come from :)

Combat is simplistic in the sense that it’s no Ninja Gaiden, DMC, GOD HAND, etc, but it’s not completely brain dead. Travis has a sizable number of moves at his disposal and there are counter systems in place. On top of all that, there are a few hidden techniques that are fun to discover, and quite rewarding to pull off.

What are these "counter systems" and "hidden techniques"? Can you be a bit more vague in the only part of your review that really matters?

And for the record, I only found one counter system, and it is not necessary to use it. Which means it may as well not be there.

Some mastery of strategy is required, although unfortunately, the skill requirement seems to peak out on the 3rd boss fight in the game.

I thought the skill requirement peaked at the very first boss. The other bosses seemed easier. Up until the fifth or sixth boss fight at least (that's how far into the game I got before I gave up on it) there is absolutely no mastery required. Pretty much everyone I know seems to get there in the same amount of time.

Protip: Be sure to buy the MKIII before entering the last stage, and when the time comes, select the “view real ending" option (I have no idea why you’d pick anything else). You’ll be pleased with the results.

This comment is just awful. Adds absolutely nothing to your criticisms and robs the player of the joy of discovering this little tidbit on his own.

Not related to the combat engine itself per se, it also irked me how the conventions of guard breaking, and the possibilities for wrestling moves performing said breaks yields, fall apart in boss fights because bosses don’t guard. They just happen to be invincible for seemingly no reason most of the time. Now there are coherent means of stunning and performing wrestling moves on bosses, but it varies a bit from boss to boss, and feels very different compared to your bouts with normal enemies.

This is the only part of the review I actually enjoyed reading.

[sarsamis]

Thanks. I have issues with rambling, which is why I typically avoid writing reviews (actually, I think this is the first one I've ever written of a game). And I admit that I was missing the point as I wrote it. It dawned on me a bit after I posted it on the original forum I wrote it for (unfortunately, it might be the most well written review there :/), but by then I just felt like leaving it alone since no one there would read it critically.

There was originally going to be a paragraph about the finishers and how they're shallow, yet pleasing on a very base level, with a comparison to how young children often jerk their controllers up when jumping in Mario, or turn them while maneuvering in driving games. I somehow forgot about that by the time I came to the combat portion of it and never bothered to edit it in.

What are these "counter systems" and "hidden techniques"? Can you be a bit more vague in the only part of your review that really matters?

And for the record, I only found one counter system, and it is not necessary to use it. Which means it may as well not be there.

There were 2 versions of that sliding counter and I counted the clashing wiimote thing as a sort of counter move since I often did it intentionally when someone was about to swing at me (a slightly charged move seems to always initiate the clash effect when you do it on someone attacking), and assumed that others playing the game would start doing so too for the same effect.

The hidden techniques comment was mainly referring to the ability to intensify your finishers by swinging the wiimote again at the right time. There were unlockable moves as well, and I don't recall the game ever telling you about the sliding counter maneuver.

I thought the skill requirement peaked at the very first boss. The other bosses seemed easier. Up until the fifth or sixth boss fight at least (that's how far into the game I got before I gave up on it) there is absolutely no mastery required. Pretty much everyone I know seems to get there in the same amount of time.

For most people, and myself included, Shinobu was the hardest fight in the game. You actually have to get a good feel for when she's open for attack and how to deal with specific moves she uses.

Protip: Be sure to buy the MKIII before entering the last stage, and when the time comes, select the “view real ending" option (I have no idea why you’d pick anything else). You’ll be pleased with the results.

This comment is just awful. Adds absolutely nothing to your criticisms and robs the player of the joy of discovering this little tidbit on his own.

I felt the need to include that because the battle that ensues from having obtained the MKIII and choosing to see the real ending is one of the best parts of the game. I'm robbing the player of the ability to deprive themselves of a fun boss fight, in exchange for a terrible ending. Really, the non-real ending shouldn't have been there at all, and the basis for unlocking the true one is really trivial since it's based on whether or not you felt like buying an expensive item from Naomi.

Also, I can see how most of the stuff in relation to the plot is excessive, and it is, but the part about how horrible the end was was sort of necessary in my opinion since people would be prone to go into it expecting some grade A Suda 51 craziness. That portion about the writing in the end was essentially there to tell potential players that the game comes no where near Killer 7's level of creative and potentially engrossing nonsense. I could have just said that, but since I viewed the writing in the end to be the most offensive aspect of the game, I figured I'd mention it specifically and also warn people who may be expecting any sort of decent plot resolution.

[bullethell]

This thread and Icy's review have changed my mind.I wont buy it, Ill rent it sometime or Ill grab it when it will be cheap.It sounds that it has awfully repetitive gaming structure and I cannot stand that.
Instead Ill buy SuperMarioGalaxy.I still feel guilty not buying it one day one.

[icycalm]

Get it when it comes down to 15 euros. That's a fair price for what you'll be getting.

I've got some things to say on sarsamis' latest post, but until then enjoy this:

Anyway, as far as No More Heroes warranting as much analysis as killer7... yes, but certainly not the same kind of analysis. As a matter of fact, I now think that the plot FAQ that I wrote was also the wrong kind of analysis for killer7. I'm in the process of writing an essay that treats the game from a more mature critical slant, and that essay's part of a larger body of work that I'm not at liberty to discuss much right now.

However, regarding Suda's work in general, I'd say there's always significance where two polar ideas/experiences are presented side-by-side without any real mediating explanation. I think that one of his stylistic tendencies is to juxtapose opposite elements in a way that modifies how you perceive one or the other, and this style is more marked because he doesn't go out of his way to stick an editorial in there saying, "Hey, what an abrupt transition from x-treme violence to pedantic afterschool jobs!"

That's where a lot of the energy from his games comes from, I think, but I'm a little too mentally invested in getting this damned killer7 essay done to think about No More Heroes very critically right now.

If I were to make blind suppositions, though, based off how NMH contrasts with killer7, this is what I'd say:

(1) NMH probably doesn't have a plot, and any signs indicating the presence of a plot are totally arbitrary.

(2) The organization of those signs, however, and the player's experiences that parallel that organization probably is significant.

killer7 has a plot, though I don't think the plot exists for its own sake (as it does in other narrative-driven games). NMH has no plot, and I'm pretty sure it wants you to know that.

http://forums.selectbutton.net/viewtopi ... 566#282566

[CosMind]

well, i finally got a chance to try this game out.
and, i must say, i'm really glad that it was on my brother's rental dime.