[WII] Madworld

[icycalm]

Second promising title from Platinum Games and Sega (after Bayonetta), described as an "ultra ultra violent action game with black and white Sin City-inspired graphics".

[icycalm]

Why Western developers never seem to be able to come up with stuff like this is beyond me. Killer 7, Okami, No More Heroes, this, and dozens of other insanely stylish games are always coming from Japan, whereas over here the best they can do is render some stick figures with a billion polygons while dressing them up with the most garish textures imaginable. Bleh.

Meanwhile, Sin City is a WESTERN COMIC FOR CHRISTSAKES!

So anyway.

http://www.sega.com/madworld/

Strangely, I haven't been able to find a Japanese official site for it... There must be one, but the above link automatically redirects me to the US one, perhaps because of my regional settings or my IP address (which is in Europe, not the US, but at least non-Japanese). Very annoying.

[Recap]

Why Western developers never seem to be able to come up with stuff like this is beyond me.

Hint.

[icycalm]

Yes, their obsession with "gritty, realistic proportions". But they do occasionally make stuff like Psychonauts, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, etc. It's just that they are goddamn ugly.

[Recap]

No, no. I meant this:

[...] This aesthetic born to please the Linkin Park Generation, simply, can't be successful on the other side of the Pacific, where, like it or not, sensibility towards visual representation forms (due to a cultural theme that starts in something so basic as writing itself) is immensely more evolved.

[icycalm]

Yes, that seems to be at the heart of the matter. But I can only accept it as an argument within the videogame industry. Western artists, as a whole, are no less competent than Japanese ones, and the West has an art tradition as long and accomplished as Japan, if not longer and more accomplished. The question is: why don't Western developers hire decent artists to work on their games? In the Western comics industry, for example, there are exceptional artists working, artists whose work I'd take anyday over many a manga. I just don't understand why this is not also the case with videogames.

[icycalm]

Actually, this applies also to Western animation... But, like I said, not to comics!

How weird.

[Recap]

Not really. Video-games and animation are (still) products for kids. Western comics for kids have exactly the same problem, while Japanese comics for kids have awesome art (one may dislike it, but as quick, mass-focused visual art, it is awesome and extremely refined).

In the end, it's a matter of respect, dedication and professionalism combined with a culture where aesthetics is extremely important. There you also have book covers, ads, envelops... A Japanese will always care about the design of "lesser" stuff, while a Westerner won't.

[icycalm]

That sounds reasonable. So I guess once games and animation are taken more seriously in the West, we can expect to see better-looking games from them...

[icycalm]

Western comics for kids have exactly the same problem, while Japanese comics for kids have awesome art (one may dislike it, but as quick, mass-focused visual art, it is awesome and extremely refined).

The old Disney comics (and perhaps also the newer ones; I don't know because I don't read them anymore), which were certainly meant for kids, are awesome, though.

[Recap]

So I guess once games and animation are taken more seriously in the West

I don't see that happening, though. New generations of Westerners are getting dumber and dumber; they lack the proper culture to appreciate [video-game] art.

Just looking at the graphics -- impressive, imaginative graphics are such a rare thing in shooters. [...] I'm playing Ninja Gaiden II on the 360 right now and small budget 2D shooters can't compete with those visuals.

http://forum.insomnia.ac/viewtopic.php?p=6674#6674

It won't matter how seriously video-game art is taken if the only base for it is stuff like Halo or Ninja Gaiden II. And no wonder it will.

[icycalm]

I don't see that happening, though. New generations of Westerners are getting dumber and dumber; they lack the proper culture to appreciate [video-game] art.

I regard Frank Miller as a great comic artist. The same goes for Todd McFarlane and many others. There will come a day when guys like these will get into the game industry. It doesn't matter how dumb the average Western gamer is. The average Western moviegoer is just as dumb, and yet there are great Western movies being made every year.

It won't matter how seriously video-game art is taken if the only base for it is stuff like Halo or Ninja Gaiden II. And no wonder it will.

I like Ninja Gaiden's aesthetic. But that's beside the point, because Ninja Gaiden and Halo are clearly not the only base. Games like Killer 7, Okami, No More Heroes, Madworld and others are as much of a base as Halo or anything else. Western developers are looking at them, and many Western gamers are drooling all over them. There will come a time when Western designers will want to produce something comparable. I think at that point they'll start bringing in the Frank Millers, Todd McFarlanes, etc.

[BlackerOmegalon]

I think too much corporate influence has an effect on Western games. For example, Ben Judd, producer of the upcoming Bionic Commando game, mentioned focus groups in an interview about the game, and said that even the main character's name was chosen because it's the one the focus group liked the most. I'm guessing that any big US game goes through many focus groups and is heavily influenced by marketing. Western games will always try to appeal to the lowest common denominator artistically, and won't allow developers creative freedom in that respect. Big US publishers are treating games like big Hollywood studios treat movies.

[Recap]

It's not really that different to the Japanese way. The point here is that Japanese games need good art to sell there whichever the target audience, while Western ones don't.

[JoshF]

So that's East doing Miller. Here's West doing Mignola!

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/hellboy/

[BlackerOmegalon]

I get the impression that Mignola is popular with Japanese artists, as I've heard his name in a number of interviews, and I constantly come upon Japanese Hellboy fan art. I remember the character designer for Majora's Mask saying in an interview that his artwork was influenced by Mike Mignola.

[Vert1]

Japanese game graphics attract many people around the world. What is the reason for this?

Toyoshi Nagata: In the United States, many valuable creators of CG movies move to the film industry, while in Japan they remain in the game industry. The reason for this is because in Japan, no other environment allows you to spend time and invest capital in making one movie quite like the game industry. Further, movie production does not handle research and development creatively, which explains why game products are in high demand.

On page eight of Japanese Game Graphics: Behind the Scenes of Your Favorite Games.

[icycalm]

http://insomnia.ac/reviews/wii/madworld/

And a description of the controls which got cut from the review:

Tap the A button to punch an enemy, hold it to grab an object or enemy. Flick the remote to toss them forward. Outside of a grab, you can move the remote sideways for a spinning punch or up for an uppercut. Holding the B button revs up the chainsaw attachment, and moving the remote horizontally or vertically gives you a corresponding attack.

The nunchuck analog stick is used for moving around, and the Z button is used for locking on to enemies and centering the camera. The C button is mapped to jump, but you won't need this unless you are using the superior jumping chainsaw attack or climbing over the rare obstacle. Used even less is the motion control of the nunchuck, which allows you to jump backwards and dodge attacks. The direction never seemed to matter, any motion would do.

And some random cool shit I wouldn't mind having:

[Tain]

I was thinking about writing a MadWorld review in the Reviews section the other day.

I was thinking about how unbelievable it is that it has trace relations to God Hand, about how fucking massive your health meter is, about how much of a safety net the nunchuck-waggle dodge is, and about how the whole thing reminds me of the worst aspects of No More Heroes. Even the jumping chainsaw attack's superiority was on my mind: the entirety of my fight against Frankenstein was using that attack rhythmically. The only reason I had to retry the battle was that he glitched out and his health meter disappeared for no apparent reason, forcing me to kill myself. Wasn't the first boss I encountered bugs against, either.

It's all said better than I could have said it. Spot on.

[Vert1]

press A to cram it into an eye socket.

Actually the game makes you shake the wiimote to do this. In order to pick up an item you have to press A. If you release the A button, you drop the item.

[JoshF]

"Wringed" in the first paragraph.

[icycalm]

Fixed. As for the controls error, I'll wait until Francis responds before I touch anything. It's not an error of substance anyway.

[Doctor Fugue]

Good review. I have only played an hour of this game -- more than enough to laugh once at the commentary, grin a few times while dealing gruesome death, and to realize the real joke: the lame combat mechanics.

The problem with this style-based points system is that the difficulty does not increase as you get more inventive. From what I saw, there is no real risk involved by going for the greater reward. I would much rather see the game heighten the danger you are in while attempting to get the most points out of a single victim. How about a system where the enemies become more aggressive when they see you setting up a major environmental and/or weapon-based kill?

Of course, there should also be the possibility of losing your entire bonus as you build it up. The way it seems now, you just need extra time to get more points, not extra skill.

[MjFrancis]

press A to cram it into an eye socket.

Lol, what was I thinking? Pressing A, sometimes B, and shaking the remote for six hours fucked up my senses, I guess. Wish I could say that I didn’t actually know what buttons I was pressing to beat the game, but I just inattentively wrote that part down.

Even the jumping chainsaw attack's superiority was on my mind: the entirety of my fight against Frankenstein was using that attack rhythmically. The only reason I had to retry the battle was that he glitched out and his health meter disappeared for no apparent reason, forcing me to kill myself. Wasn't the first boss I encountered bugs against, either

That’s the game forcing you to go through with the quick time event of pulling the bolts out of his back. I did the same thing, just executing the jumping chainsaw attack and doing the backflip to dodge. His life bar went to zero and he wasn’t dead. Next time around I did the QTEs and beat him just fine.

The game really wasn't tight at all, and I think the final edit of the review nailed this point home.

[Kaocrat]

The visual and comedic style of the game is appealing enough that I'm still tempted to get this despite the weak mechanics and poor AI. Do you think the game would be worth playing provided I download a completed save file so the first playthrough is on "hard" mode?