From Discord:
https://discord.gg/7ZKAkEj[The discussion started from me commenting on Qpo's Dawn of War II stream.]
icycalm
lol the jetpack guys look amazing
Qpo
they are the shit
assault space marines :heart: :heart: :heart:
love those guys
icycalm
I can definitely see the appeal of the game. The ideal for me would be a PA with unit detail like this game, where I would be able to command dozens of people like you fighting on dozens of fronts
And now and then I would be required to step in and help out, or go off and defend an outpost, etc., so that I could have the best of all worlds
I've been reading up on 3, and it really sounds like the battles are massives there, at least
Qpo
The ideal for me is PA with 40k. Then the ideal after that is MMOFPSRTS etc., where it's still PA with 40k but every unit is a person playing, and there's layers of hierarchy, higher ranked players get to move up the ranks and so forth. Maybe the very bottom level grunts are CPU, and if there's not enough players you fill out the ranks with CPU. Possibly the lowest rank for a player would be a squad leader. So PlanetSide 2 taken to PA scale with a 40k setting, and you need to really work out some good way for controlling a full squad while playing in first-person at the same time.
Maybe 60% of the squads work will just be to follow the squad leader around and focus the same targets but you still need some commandos. And then some proper melee in a first-person perspective, no text chat, and voice filters so that everyone sounds like a space marie when talking to each-other in-game.
icycalm
The thing is, that ranking as a grunt doesn't mean you'll make a good leader
That's why officers go to academies and grunts to boot camps
So just racking up the kills shouldn't give you promotions
I don't see for any way to get promotions in game
The current system, where people voluntarily follow a leader because they know him from outside the game and trust him, is the best alternative
And my ranking is the reverse of yours
My ideal is PlanetSide viewpoint with PA strategy and Dawn of War tactics
Hell, I would be willing to learn to code to make this game
Throw in Deus Ex role-playing, and I will go into the matrix
How hard could it be to learn to make this from scratch?
How much work would it be?
And at the end of it all, you'll be a millionaire guaranteed
Plus videogame director God on the level of Sid Meier and Kojima
Paging @SriK
Hell, people modded a first-person view into PA
Why could you not mod it into an MMO then?
And it already has many units and good tactics, so all you would need to do is add more units and special powers etc., and you have Dawn of War tactics
And once everything is played in first-person, you could add the dialogue and Deus Ex choices
You would need to add cities, etc. for that though
But cities are just extra structures; people have already modded extra structures in
The only thing is that it would require a monster of a computer to run
Qpo
well the hardware part someone else will solve in the meantime
icycalm
As for money, I am sure that if we got a prototype working, Kickstarter would shower us with dough
If complete amateurs making a prototype such us this is even remotely feasible, I am all in
And after you have some money via crowdfunding, you can bring in some pros too (edited)
Which would bring in more money, snowballing the entire thing
The concept is actually very close to Ubergame's
Ubergame would have been exactly like this, but single-player
Instead of starting with PA, and zooming into Deus Ex, it would have started with Deus Ex and zoomed out to PA
Qpo
I don't remember how much I've read about Ubergame but I've thought about that too. To get to the strategy level you really have to first get into power, then establish a system for ruling, and then actually rule. But in a grand strategy game you already start at the third phase, which is really nice but kinda "cheating", in lack of a better word. So I'd like to go through the previous stages too, and the first would play best as an FPS. I'm not too sure about the second.
icycalm
Realistically, you would start with a PlanetSide/PA/Dawn of War hybrid
because this is the major technical challenge
And once that game was finished and released, you could start thinking about a role-playing infused sequel
So you wouldn't have to worry about plots and campaigns at first, or about promotions in-game
You would just have clans showing up and fighting
You would FORCE everyone to use voice chat, and to enlist with clans
Hell, you could give clans a cut of the earnings, for every new player
They could buy the game on the clans' sites
You could even have different game covers for every clan
And the art for the clans would be made by the official artist
Kind of like how Uber makes the art for the special commanders in consultation with the people who ordered them
The clans themselves would sort out their command structure between them
And if you wanted to be supreme leader?
Start your own clan, for which there will be a hefty fee
Don't have the money or the motivation?
Enlist as a grunt then
And if your superiors become impressed with you, they will promote you
Qpo
I know grunt vs. leader are separate things and as far as I've come to solving it is separate "matchmaking" queues, so that grunt people click "be a grunt" and leader people click "be a leader", and they get placed according to those roles. And I've thought about having those two as the only options of playing, i.e. that there's no other way to play than as a solo person, who then gets matched up together and against people in-game, to really force them into roleplaying their character as they don't know each other. Essentially I want to cut out any trace of irl as people go in. And with "matchmaking" I just mean that is uses those mechanics, you of course want to dress it up as a "Do Your Duty" or something. When you start the game you don't even get menus, but immediately start in first-person, as a civilian (first time) or solider at leave (rest of the times), that jump back in. But it remains how the ranking up should work in-game as I don't really trust having a voting system...
icycalm
Read my earlier posts
I solved the ranking thing
We already do it in our clan
Qpo
had to press enter since I had written it out in parallel
icycalm
lol I know
Qpo
ok lol
icycalm
The least I can do is publish the design as "icycalm's dream game", and then either someone makes it, or at least makes something approaching that, or offers to help me make it
Kind of like how playwrights work
They write the play, and then producers produce it
And there are many versions
Qpo
I've had this vision since 2012 and only talked about it once, when I just first had it, out of paranoia that someone's going to "steal it" and that they won't "get it right" and that I have to make it myself for it to be done properly
There's a bunch of games to make on the way to work on the parts needed for the complete thing, but yeah, it's a huge undertaking
I've thought about writing a comprehensive design document and starting shopping it around to the big companies. Supposedly, I was told from a teacher I had that has been doing this stuff, if your design is good they will more likely hire you than "steal it", as you'd be nice to have around to make it into reality
icycalm
Makes sense
Qpo
but you can't send it to everyone at once because then they will get paranoid, proabbly
man my keyboard is giving out on me, typing too fast lol
icycalm
Can you imagine a crowdfunding campaign involving me?
HE IS A FEDERAL FUGITIVE1111
Qpo
hahaha