Your esteemed benevolent DMs have been discussing the empire mechanics in private, and I'll just copy-paste here everything instead of trying to summarize where we are.
CULT|icycalm
Dude have you seen the Pathfinder kingdom mechanics?
They are incredible
It's a whole strategy videogame basically
They even give you the building maps to place on a grid
CULT|danjiro
Oh? I haven't yet but it sounds great
CULT|icycalm
https://thetrove.net//Books/Pathfinder/ ... mpaign.pdfpg 196
Even some of the illustrations are cool
50k gp to start a kingdom
The kingdom has alignment and levels up
It even has a "character sheet"
CULT|danjiro
Ahhh no wonder I couldn't find it, it's in the campaign book
I've reread all of the 3.5 PHB and most of the DMG. I was going to take a look at Pathfinder specific material next
CULT|icycalm
This is the "Ultimate Campaign" book
It seems to do much the same things I want to do with UE
Only the sexual stuff it doesn't have
But it does seem to have some rudimentary inheritance system
CULT|danjiro
Looks like they have a basic relationship system too
These kingdom rules really are excellent so far
CULT|icycalm
I was floored
Never in a million years would I have come up with this stuff
Well, if it was my job maybe
I am looking at Birthright now
CULT|danjiro
They even have taxation and division of powers covered
CULT|icycalm
The division of powers was where I was going, but yeah they have done it already
Looking at Birthright now it seems the PF people definitely at least read that, and probably built off of it
The hard part now is deciding which system is better
CULT|danjiro
I remember Birthright having some pretty good war mechanics
CULT|icycalm
After the kingdom mechanics, the PF campaign book has mass war mechanics
So I guess these are two different subjects
CULT|danjiro
But this Ultimate Campaign book also has mass warfare
CULT|icycalm
We could mix and match
CULT|danjiro
Yeah, just saw it
CULT|icycalm
From Birthright
That's what I had in mind basically
I can't find how PF handles it
What I don't see in Birthright is rules for building
CULT|danjiro
In UC, a kingdom turn is 1 month's worth of time
CULT|icycalm
Yeah that's good
CULT|danjiro
So I'm guessing if people are gone for a month and they didn't leave anyone in charge there would be trouble
CULT|icycalm
I have some ideas on how to deal with this, but first I want to see what the books say
So far, it seems to me that PF has the more complex system
So perhaps we start with that, and add whatever good Birthright elements we find
CULT|danjiro
The section on losing hexes in UC has some concrete rules on what it might look like if they start losing control: pg 209
CULT|icycalm
If you look at the Battlegrounds site, the only map with hexes is Pathfinder's
Everything is ready for us there
CULT|danjiro
Very nice!
CULT|icycalm
One of the problems that is troubling me is how to motivate the players to attack each other's kingdoms
One way would be to allow only ONE area in the entire universe to be settled: some area in PF, so they would all be neigbhors
That's not an ideal solution, but it's an idea
CULT|danjiro
If we stat out some enemy kingdoms we can have them receive envoys from them demanding things or trying to set up alliances and deals which could put the player kingdoms in confict
CULT|icycalm
But what if they are in different planets?
CULT|danjiro
I remember some of the older 3e books had stats on kingdoms
Yeah that would be complicated lol
CULT|icycalm
In that case, not only would it be awkward to set up, but the attackers would definitely not be bringing their armies
Btw, have you seen the little building tiles and grids in the PF book?
These could be easily adapted to work on Dark Sun or any world
We just need someone with photochop skills to isolate elements from DS maps
That makes me think we could make all planets and planes settleable
But not in TaleSpire
However, Pathfinder itself would be perfect for TaleSpire
Another option is to not try to motivate the players to PVP at the strategy level
We have PVP at the tactical level, and leave it at that
And for the strategy level, we have PVE
CULT|danjiro
We could allow PVP if they're on the same world and restrict multi-world to PVE for now
CULT|icycalm
A super-epic option would be a kingdom that includes ALL the groups lol
So that one group goes adventuring where another plays the kingdom
And in-fighting for the hierarchy lol
CULT|danjiro
That would be really fun to watch lol
CULT|icycalm
So many options
Once a group has established a kingdom, it would be up to them to recruit other groups if they want
That would also allow a group to grow beyond the D&D max of 6
If you have 7 or 8 players, you can only take 6 adventuring at a time, like a videogame
CULT|danjiro
Oooooh that would work well. First group to establish a kingdom would have the upper hand
CULT|icycalm
That gives yet another reason to want a kingdom: to expand the group
CULT|danjiro
They could offer quests to the others in exchange for support or proceeds
CULT|icycalm
That sounds great
The more the players and groups, the better it would work
It could go any number of ways
They could all coalesce into a mega-group fighting for dominance of an entire planet, or they could make separate kingdoms on separate planets and never meet
I am sure if one of them is on the brink of losing their kingdom, they would ask for help
We just have to set up a system that allows everything, and then just let them play and see what happens
Birthright is definitely inferior, it leaves too much to chance
Unless I am reading this table wrong, and it's not about chance but initiative or cost of action or something
Still, the whole rulebook seems sparse
PF tells you how much each bridge costs and BR doesn't have buildings at all
CULT|danjiro
Yeah PF is looking more detailed
And expanded
CULT|icycalm
It makes sense since it's like a decade or more later
I don't know where the players will find 50,000 gp
One of the Dark Sun adventures gives them 10 at the end lol
Though that's worth 100x more on Dark Sun or something
It's still peanuts, but it's an introductory adventure
On the other hand, there are adventures in Pathfinder that give players a kingdom
Even a Forgotten Realms one, the epic Bloodstone pass series, gives them a kingdom
So there ARE a few adventures that bypass the 50,000
The Pathfinder kingdom rules even say that the DM might give the players a headstart, but I would rather an official adventure did it
Maybe we could mark these adventures on the map, so the players know to go for them
"KINGDOM ADVENTURE"
CULT|danjiro
Yeah that’s a good idea. If multiple groups are interested it also gives them a chance to run for it and fight over it
CULT|icycalm
Moreover, if a group spends a lot of time playing out their kingdom phases, another group could keep adventuring and grow in power
What if the adventuring group ends up in Council of Wyrms?
Then they could roll a dragon character
Then they come back lol
I will put the chance of going to Council of Wyrms at 1% or something
So the more you adventure and plane-hop, the greater the chances you end up there
CULT|danjiro
That would be a great turn of events lol
CULT|icycalm
https://www.gog.com/game/dd_stronghold_ ... _simulatorSomething to look into
As an unlockable
More resources