Cult Character Designer 3 (internal codename: Hero Forge)

[ysignal]

I've imported the test model into TaleSpire:



The picture above includes the Hero Forge base, but deleting that should be easy. The metallic surfaces don't look very shiny, but because I don't have a picture of this model in Hero Forge, it's hard to see exactly what it should look like. Hero Forge and TaleSpire don't necessarily use the same lighting model, which could alter the results. I'll see what I can do about that after work today. Here's my link:

https://www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D500560025/

[icycalm]

You should go in the modders' Discord and ask them about best practices for the base. Should we keep the Hero Forge base, or add the TaleSpire base? I suspect that the TaleSpire base features won't work on imported bases. We need to figure all this stuff out 100% before we start mass-importing models.

Ideally, we'd wait until the official Hero Forge integration launched, but who knows how long that will take. Besides, if we want to share our minis with others and assemble a huge library, we'll need to learn manual importing anyway.

[icycalm]

How did you get the test model btw?

[ysignal]

It's linked off this page:

https://www.heroforge.com/Materials/

[icycalm]

Invite to the TaleSpire modding Discord: https://discord.com/invite/vH2Ge6KsjW

Not sure it's still valid, at any rate that's what I used to get in.

Also, once you're established in there, you should start asking around for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8uUkDS ... VJg2NFZkbz

If you don't mind untextured minis (or can texture them yourself) the whole d&d 5e monster manual is available (all 2GB of assets).

We NEED to get these 2 gigs.

[ysignal]

The lighting issue is caused by the Custom Mini plugin not picking up all of the texture maps exported by Hero Forge. It seems to be difficult to get all of the maps to come through using the OBJ/MTL format that I've been using so far. I talked to the guys in the TaleSpire modding Discord, and they recommend making asset bundles instead as it gives better control over the end result. I think the mod just instantiates a prefab from the bundle, in which case it should make getting TaleSpire to pick up all the maps much easier. I'll look into it over the next few days.

[icycalm]

I hope once the official integration is released we can re-export everything without having to pay again.

[icycalm]

That won’t work for all the minis we’ll get from other people on Reddit though, so we need to nail this process.

[ysignal]

I made an asset bundle for the sample model with all the texture maps included. The improved version is on the left:



I haven't found a complete guide to getting all of this stuff right, so I put this doc together:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t9yVR2HI8zdhWExHdcj4rFIu2OuTVNvTDuK-xQgy_Xo/edit?usp=sharing

I wrote it after I finished though, so I need to run through it again to check the steps.

[ChevRage]

So from the sounds of it we might not want to include the Hero Forge base at all. The guys from the Discord were telling me that the Hero Forge base will also get knocked over with the character, and will follow the character if they end up flying for whatever reason, which is different to how the TaleSpire bases function. I guess the TaleSpire ones stay flat on the ground beneath the character regardless of the actual mini's orientation?

Also, the 5E minis icy was told about were apparently modeled by a guy going by the name of mz4250. He has a Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/mz4250

And apparently you can download all his models from his Google drive after joining the Wyvern tier. Over 300 GB worth I hear...

The Discord also has some effort to colour and texture some of these, but they are released slowly in small packs of a handful of creatures each.

Here's the full response I got (might help with the actual importing, but from the looks of it ysignal has that covered):

[ChevRage]

Sounds like it's easy enough to remove the base through Blender at any rate, so those people who want to get their figure 3D-printed might want to keep their bases on.

[ysignal]

I tried the process on Archonus' character:



The differences in color are due to differences in the lighting setup between Hero Forge and my TaleSpire test scene. The eyes also look a bit intense in TaleSpire because they're not as reflective as they are in Hero Forge, which makes the black of the pupils come out very strong. That's just how Hero Forge exports it, so it's not a problem with our import process.

[icycalm]

Keep in mind that the best TaleSpire creators can use the photo mode to get screenshots that look almost nothing like what an average person like me or you can get. So it's quite possible that an expert TaleSpire photographer can make the minis look the same as Hero Forge.

That said, you should post that comparison pic in the TaleSpire modding Discord and ask them for their opinion, i.e. on whether that's the best that can be done, or if your process can be improved. Double-check your process document and share it with them as well. And after doing that, I would also go on the TaleSpire Reddit and start a thread and post all that in there again. I know it sounds excessive, but it's better than realizing we made a mistake after we've exported dozens of minis.

When all this is done—and it's not hugely urgent, as I am still working on the D&D3 manor, so you can take your time—we can start importing stuff.

[ysignal]

I spent some more time working in the lighting. I posted my process and comparison shots in the modding Discord, but didn't get a response. In any case, I did find this guide:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZZoz0uBvXCmSuwSL9_faV27pmsOi0KpBIN_IVFbKr_w/edit#

After reading this and doing some tests, I have lots of questions that I need to answer to make sure the import is correct. The sticking point is that the prefabs aren't being instantiated verbatim in TaleSpire. The question is whether we can change that and if not, how the prefabs need to be adjusted. Also, the guide has some information that's definitely wrong, so I can't just follow the steps. I'll ask the modding guys some specific questions when I continue my tests.

[icycalm]

Good work, keep at it.

That said, we will modify our plans a bit.

We will wait for the official Hero Forge-TaleSpire integration to import our minis. Until then, we'll play with our paper minis, and the NPCs and monsters too will be official Pathfinder paper minis, plus whatever illustrations we need to import. We could in fact play like this forever, and in some ways it's superior aesthetically, so it's not a bad deal.

IN FACT, I would say you might want to consider ceasing work on the 3D model importation altogether because some time after the Hero Forge integration happens, Bouncyrock will release TaleWeaver which will be the official way to import 3D models to TaleSpire. So what's the point of importing a ton of models now substandardly when we'll have to do it all over again when the final tools arrive?

So I say stop working on 3D and focus on paper minis and let's perfect that technique. I almost wouldn't care if we played with those forever. 2D art has some serious advantages over 3D, as Recap would be happy to tell us.

Once I get Robo's manor, I will talk to you to find some way to standardize our 2D importation method. We need to establish canonical paper sizes, elevation from the base, we need to edit stuff like logos and imperfections out of images—I can do some of that, and hopefully One Kick and Beakman will help with whatever I can't do.

One question is what happens with the guys who've bought a Hero Forge sub? If they stop it now, do they keep their remaining minis? Will they also be able to re-export the ones they've already bought to TaleSpire?

In any case, we're only talking about a few bucks, so it doesn't matter. Whoever has already bought a Pro sub can terminate it now. I'll start one for Battlegrounds and keep it going.

[ysignal]

Okay, I'll focus on the paper minis. We'll also need to figure out what kind of surface the paper will have (e.g. how glossy it should be) and what we want on the back face of the card. We may still need to tweak the textures to get the colors to look good with TaleSpire's shader.

[icycalm]

So I DMed a guy on Twitter who was showing off a bunch of minis he imported into TaleSpire. Not sure where he got them from, could have been Hero Forge, but he was saying he personally “painted” some of them, and I am not sure what that means. He was just picking colors on Hero Forge? Or coloring 3D models in Blender? Or painting physical minis then 3D modeling them?

Either way I asked him to exchange files, and he agreed and even sent me his files first!







It’s supposed to be these:



At least one of them is sci-fi.

So we need first of all ysignal to tell people if the STLs this guy wants are the same files we prefer to buy on Hero Forge. Then we need people to start buying Pro subs to HF and buying their minis then sending me the files so I can make a zip. The bigger the zip, the more people will be interested in exchanging with us. So we need ALL our characters! And we need ysignal to import them into TS—even if the process is suboptimal for now—for group shots with which we’ll entice more people to exchange with us.

The way I’ll do it is send people on Twitter and Reddit a few minis first as a sign of goodwill. And when they send me theirs, I’ll give them the whole archive. Then we can keep in touch and every time they buy or create or acquire something we exchange again and moreover they can also bring their acquaintances into our circle. Meanwhile, with the Pro sub I got we’ll be legit buying more and more minis so this isn’t 100% piracy. These companies need to get together and make a kind of Netflix sub for GMs otherwise TaleSpire is unusable. Until then, we’ll keep working on this archive.

P.S. Every mini posted in here so far has been approved and can be bought and its files sent to me, as long as ysignal has told you which files we need. New minis should be posted here first for approval.

[icycalm]

[icycalm]

Regarding buying the models, you have to pay separately for each format, so people should choose the "3D Tabletop Download".

What I want to know, before we begin doing anything, is if this guy sent us his files in this "3D Tabletop Download" format. This is the format we want, not the files AFTER they've been imported into TaleSpire. We need the original files so that if the importation process is improved later, we can rework all our minis. From what he's been saying to me on Twitter, however, it sounds like he sent us his TaleSpire files. I will wait for ysignal to confirm this, before I ask him to send me the original files. And it would be better if before I make this request of him, we have sent him at least five-six minis of our own: the ones we've made so far.

[ysignal]

What he's sent us are Unity asset bundles, but they don't work with TaleSpire for me using the EAR mod. It's definitely not in the Hero Forge "3D Tabletop" format, which makes sense because he's using Eldritch Foundry. In any case, they can be extracted with Asset Studio and reimported like the Hero Forge minis, but the true source materials are his Substance Painter files and the FBX model, as he's painted the models himself digitally. I don't know how faithful his export from Substance Painter to the asset bundle is, so the best thing for reimportation is to have his Substance Painter files (and the FBX, unless that's embedded in the Substance Painter project). But that's not a good sharing format, as other people might not have Substance Painter, so it'd be good to have both the source files and the final TaleSpire conversion. I do have Substance Painter, so it's no problem for us to work with.

Bear in mind that the "3D Tabletop" format is just another export, and it's hard to know exactly how faithful it is without dumping the shaders and texture maps from the Hero Forge page.

As far as sending him STLs goes, we don't have them. But I don't think there's any reason he would need that format specifically.

[icycalm]

Well, we have to start from somewhere. What files do you suggest we send him? The "3D Tabletop" ones, correct?

[ysignal]

If he knows how to use Blender it makes more sense to send him the OBJs with the texture maps as PNGs.

[icycalm]

But our players will have to choose the "3D Tabletop" option on Hero Forge, correct?

I am really drowning here in all this terminology, and I am trying to find a way out of the spaghetti mess so we can start getting some work done.

[ysignal]

Yep, the players download the "3D Tabletop" format and I will convert it into a format that's suitable for this guy.

[icycalm]

I don't think it's worth our time doing conversions for people. Remember I am not just interested in this guy, I am interested in our archive above all. And it makes sense for this archive to have whatever format Hero Forge gives us. If people want to make conversions later, they can do them, and we can too. There's no sense in blowing up the size of the archive beyond the bare minimum source files needed.

So talk to Archonus to get the three minis he's already bought. Then Chev should send you as many minis from the ones that have already been posted as he can purchase with his sub, and the rest we purchase with Archonus's remaining sub. That should be all the minis posted so far. If there are leftovers, I will purchase them with my sub. We zip all those up and send them to the guy, and then I can ask him for his Substance Painter and OBJ files, or even better his Eldritch Foundry files (unless they are uncolored, I suppose).

One thing I want us to do before we send him everything is archive our minis properly. This means that every mini, BEFORE it is exported from Hero Forge, should have the character's correct name. E.g. "Edward", and "Edward with Oliver" for Chev's minis. Make sure that's done before you send me the zipped file.