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Master of Heroes

Master of Heroes Rules

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Master of Heroes Rules

Unread postby icycalm » 10 Jan 2025 01:37

We're now on Day 3 in the Master of Heroes Tutorial. Day 7 will be the last tutorial day, culminating in a full 4-hero playthrough of Black Fang's Dungeon, and Day 8 will open up the game to all players. Currently that is Rory, recoil and ysignal on top of SriK, if he chooses to continue. They already have several dozen heroes between them, so it should be hella fun dropping all of them on the overworld and watching them form parties and spreading out and exploring and getting themselves into trouble and crazyass schemes.

They will be the first players in history to be given total freedom to explore the Pathfinder setting: the biggest fictional world ever. No other players have ever had this pleasure, because no previous game has offered it.

What will players need to know to play the game? What will be the starting ruleset?

  • First off, read the tutorial linked above. Once all 7 days are played, the full text chat from Discord will be copy-pasted in that thread, and it will contain many additional explanations from me on top of the actual mechanics used for those turns. Think of it as a FAQ on top of an actual play log. Additionally, it will be lore! It will be part of world history, what I call Ultimate Lore or Dynamic Lore, to be explained in depth in a future Ultimate Edition chapter.

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  • As for the actual ruleset players must learn, the tutorial confines itself to pages 74-131 in Ultimate Campaign, the chapter titled "Downtime" (which we rename to "Adventure-strategy"). The full game however, starting from Day 8, will use far more rules than that.

  • For starters, it will use the next chapter as well, "Campaign Systems", on pages 132-195. These sections introduce many vital mechanics to the game. For example cross-hex movement, that was omitted from the tutorial, can be found here in the "Exploration" section in pages 154-159. These are the same hexploration rules originally introduced in the Kingmaker Adventure Path (maybe expanded, I am not sure, I haven't compared them yet). The next section titled "Honor" introduces yet another form of capital alongside Gold, Goods, Influence, Labor and Magic: Honor. And on it goes.

  • Then the next and final chapter in the book, "Kingdoms and War" in pages 196-251, is an expansion of the same mechanics originally introduced, once again, in the Kingmaker Adventure Path. They're all part of Master of Heroes, but you can skip them to start with because it'll be a while before they come into play. (Though note that they'll be activated in Kingslayer almost from the get-go, because that's the entire point of that campaign, being an expansion of Kingmaker, so you might want to take a look at these rules if you plan to be joining that campaign when it launches later this year.)

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  • And that's it for "Ultimate Campaign". However, this is where Ultimate Kingdoms starts, and note that the ENTIRETY of that book is included in the starting rules, in contrast to "Ultimate Campaign" whose first chapter, "Character Background", is too detailed for adventure-strategy layer heroes and will be used only with roleplaying layer characters. Note however that Chapter 9: "Sample Kingdoms & Organizations" has been removed from the players' copy for obvious reasons, and you'll be encountering those kingdoms and organizations in the game. Apart from those missing pages, the entire rest of the book is in the rules, including the new general and hordelord classes, which are now available in all layers of the game.

And that's it for the two books. But this is only the beginning, and there will be more books. How many more? I have half a dozen I am looking at lol. But don't worry, they'll be very gradually introduced.

None of this material is required reading to play the game. None. You can play without having read anything, not even the tutorial. If you know nothing, I will give you a few basic options on your first turn, and you can choose between them. As you play more and learn more, I'll be giving you more options, and moreover you'll also be observing the other players and learning from them, so the game will be opening up more and more for you the more you play.

I do not expect anyone to read EVERYTHING before their first turn, and make optimal play choices (Confession: I haven't read everything either). Even I can't do this at this point. The rules are just too much, because they were never intended to power a strategy game: they were intended to be selectively injected into roleplaying campaign downtimes to add some color to them: that is all. I am sure it never even occurred to the designers that someone would try to use these rules for a multiplayer PVP persistent 4X game, so the whole "system"—if we could call it that, because it's not really a system—is surely hugely imbalanced. And it will be our goal to balance it. It's also full of holes with multiple systems missing to create the full 4X experience, and it will be our jobs to devise and add these systems. I am already well advanced in this work, as you will see by reading my tutorial commentary and also my Alpha 2.0 posts.

Ultimately, what you need in order to start playing is a couple of simple commands. The simplest you can use is menial, unskilled work that pays 5 SP per turn per hero, with no check involved. So if you have no idea what to do on your first turn, just put your heroes to work in the starting settlement generating a bit of gold for you, and take it from there. A few turns down the line you will have observed other players playing more complex commands, and you can just copy what they're doing. Little by little we'll grow our knowledge this way, and a few months down the line we will have mastered the starting rules. And that's when I'll add more lol.

As always, whoever reads the ENTIRE books linked above, cover to cover, should bump their player thread and let me know so I can put a tick next to them in their Battlegrounds Profile. Why would you want to read every last page, even the boring unit/org/room/building descriptions? Because that's how you learn what is possible in the game, that's how you get inspired to try stuff out. To give you a recent example, I was inspired to devise the Claim Buildings mechanic by reading the Crypt description in "Ultimate Campaign" and remembering that the title of the first Master of Combat Scenario we played was Skeleton King's Crypt. So I believe that in order to enjoy the game to the fullest you will, at some point, have to read the entire rulebooks concerned. But you certainly don't have to do it from the start, or for a long time, or even ever, if you just can't be bothered to. You can learn on the job, so to speak, and I'll be there on Discord playing along with you and giving you all the help you need.

See these rules as more of a restaurant menu than a strict game ruleset. Yes, you can't play chess unless you know ALL the rules pretty much, but this isn't chess. This is life, pretty much. It is conceptually as complex as life. Not in the details, but in the breadth of what is possible. And we don't learn about life all in one go: we learn our whole lives long. So try out a couple of simple moves first, then later some more complex ones, and so on, as if trying out different dishes in a restaurant. And eventually you'll find your niches in the game, the ones that fascinate you the most, and you can spend your time exploring them.

It will be unreal. Wait until you have some holdings and see them rendered in Dungeondraft, or later on in full 3D VR, and fully zoomable from the overworld, from cosmic level all the way down to the secret exit from your basement. There's nothing else like it.

Dungeondraft Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYTHVRpihKg

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icycalm
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Re: Gifted Heroes

Unread postby ysignal » 16 Jan 2025 06:15

When did the rule about Cult Roleplayers accruing heroes become active (assuming it already has)? I'm assuming it's not retroactive to the start of subs that preexist the rule.
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Re: Gifted Heroes

Unread postby icycalm » 16 Jan 2025 08:18

I have to make a decision on that asap. It’s definitely retroactive to the start of the sub, I just haven’t decided how many heroes per month/year. At least 4/year. Plus workers/troops like cutpurses/archers etc. Which means I have to set limits of unit recruitment per settlement as I did with hero recruitment because you shouldn’t be able to go into a village of 100 and recruit 1000 as you currently can with Paizo’s rules.

I just don’t yet have a good feel for the game’s balance to be able to make these decisions, but I have to make them otherwise we’ll never start, so I’ll make some conservative choices and see where they take us.

Players who don’t use their heroes/units will have them accruing in their player profile and will be able to gift them to other players. Or let them pile up and then one day unleash an entire army on the world.
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Roleplayer Subscription Benefits

Unread postby icycalm » 16 Jan 2025 15:34

Here is clarification on the full Roleplayer subscription tier benefits now that ysignal has asked for it. Note that the main benefits are in the roleplaying layer. The adventure-strategy benefits are just bonuses. Substantial bonuses to be sure, but they’re not the main dish, which is why the tier is called Roleplayer and not Adventure-strategist. So:

  • Above all, Roleplayers can play in two campaigns simultaneously. For example two Pathfinder campaigns, or one Pathfinder and one Starfinder. Or one Pathfinder and one D&D. This is by far the main benefit of the tier, it’s for those who are super-hungry for roleplaying content and want to participate in as much Battlegrounds drama and action as possible. How can you play in a second campaign if you’re a Roleplayer and currently playing in only one? First of all, if three new players joined today and wanted to start a new PF campaign, you could be their fourth. Second, you can speak to other Roleplayers in the private #cult-roleplayers Discord channel and see if there is enough interest for a new campaign. Currently there are 7 players in there, so they could almost start two. They could for example start Iron Gods which unlocks Starfinder and at the end of it they could continue there. Note that currently shubn and Chev are playing in two campaigns because they volunteered to step in for retired players. Those campaigns are freebies, so that’s a way to get to play more without paying more: be alert and volunteer to help the multiverse run smoothly when help is needed. And yes, this means shubn can play in three campaigns if he wants to. And a fourth if he adds another $50 to his sub. There is no limit. Some people play in half a dozen campaigns simultaneously if they can find the groups and GMs for them. For example Steven Berg if you remember him played in four campaigns if I remember correctly, all the while still playing 4P Divinity: Original Sin with us AND asking to be in the original Forgotten Realms campaign that I was planning to run before that idea morphed into Ultimate Edition and Battlegrounds.

  • The other major roleplaying benefit is that Roleplayers can play as much DLC as they want for free. But that’s not such a huge deal because anyone can play a DLC adventure for $50. The huge benefit is that new DLC will be announced first in the #cult-roleplayers channel, so Roleplayers will get first dibs on them.

  • As for the adventure-strategy layer, Roleplayers get 1 regular hero every two months, and also 250 GP again per two months that they can spend on construction or recruitment, or just to buy stuff like items etc. Note that heroes normally cost $25 and $1 = 10 GP (i.e. you can buy anything in the game at any time by paying 1/10th its GP value in USD). So these are nice steady bonuses for players who are looking to make a big impact in the adventure-strategy layer, no different than the bonuses a Life is Feudal or Star Citizen subscription give. Once Starfinder is unlocked you’ll also be able to buy spaceships and colony buildings etc., at which point it will be clear how utterly superior this sub is to any other game’s, including Star Citizen’s.

  • You’re still helping the project tremendously with a $50 Superplayer subscription and can still access all the game’s features with it. Besides, the $100 tier is not only a lot more expensive but also requires more time to fully enjoy its benefits, time that some players don’t have. So there’s no need to upgrade unless you are dying for more content, and you can always buy whatever bits and pieces you want with one-off purchases. On the other hand, if you just have money to burn and want to throw some more of it at me so I can make a bigger and better game, you can upgrade even if you don’t plan to use the benefits yourself. You can then gift the benefits to other players if you want, including extra campaign seats. The heroes and gold for example will keep piling in your account, and you could dump them on someone’s lap when you see their situation on the overworld in dire peril.

I need to post the above on the Battlegrounds site, but for the time being here will do. Any questions, ask below. I truly believe that this subscription system is the coolest in the entire history of gaming, and that if you only have one gaming-related sub, it should be mine.
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icycalm
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Earning Capital

Unread postby icycalm » 16 Jan 2025 23:53

Earning capital with the downtime rules; Am I understanding this correctly?
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r8j6?Earn ... rules-Am-I

This two-page thread is required reading to understand wth is going on with the Earning Capital rules. There are no spoilers in the thread, though most people will probably be bored reading it, and that's understandable. Don't worry, I am handling it, but I am posting it here just in case anyone wants to read it because the more brains working on this stuff, the easier it will be to run the math and avoid mistakes.

It will be easier to understand, and to become interested in the issue, if you've played a few turns. If you haven't played yet, come back here and read it after you've played, or while in the middle of playing. It's hard to take an interest in this level of complexity if you aren't actively engaged with it.
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